Sessions

[duckln]

Thanks. I'll see if I find a 'midi' tune, crank it up and do some practising.

 

Joe

[bill_mchale]

The bottom line is that many people cannot play without dots, for some its a case of:

 

can't do it, so won't do it,

won't do is so can't do it.

 

but with the dots as as reference, or prop, they can keep up and make a good solid contribution to a session. I feel that those who have the ear to play along in open music, un-aided, are fortunate, perhaps more fortunate than they realise, and I for one bitterly regret the attitude that "there is no place for written music in a session" (of any form).

 

I strongly feel that this music should be inclusive, otherwise we risk discouraging leaners of both the music and the instrument. Some people have enough mastering the instruments without having to spend time 'sitting out' in the hope someone will play a tune they may know at a pace they can keep up with. Where as dots can provide a bit of confidence and enable people to dip in and out of a tune as they gain proficiency and tempo.

Dave,

I am not sure I agree with the notion that there are people who can't play without dots. Maybe they believe they can't but well... the fact that most folk music was passed down for decades or even centuries without dots recording it indicate that most folk musicians at one time had to ability to learn a tune and retain it in memory. Shoot, I never saw anyone ask for a score before they whistle or hum a tune, and yet the concept is really similar.

 

In regards to music at sessions, well I think things have to be looked in context. At least in Irish music, 3 or more tunes are usually played in a row, the names are rarely announced, and they are played rather quickly. There is not really time for a person to look up a tune without being disruptive of other players.

 

Also I think that while beginners are usually at least welcome to sit in at a session, it should be remembered that many sessions are not intended for beginners (that is what slow sessions are for). The best sessions in Baltimore often contain some extremely talented musicians who teach as well as play and they are looking to play some tunes with friends when they go to a session, not teach the music. They want to sit back, have a pint and play until they drop and would prefer as few distractions as possible to that purpose. We should be glad that they have chosen to play in public in the first place. It would be like walking into a Blues club and finding Muddy Waters and Eric Clapton jamming and asking them to hold up so you can get the tune out and play along.

 

--

Bill

[Helen]

Whaling away on the drum was not too nerve wracking.

Maybe not for the whaler, but what about the whales... er, listeners?

Ah Jim I knew I could count on you. I dunno, they asked me back so the whalin away must have been ok. Course, they did ask me to bring my hammer dulcimer.......

 

Helen the Sailor er Whaler

[Sharron]

Someone must have mentioned slow down software on this site before, but I use the amazing slow downer. http://www.ronimusic.com (I think)

 

It is perfectly possible to learn music by ear and leave the dots behind, it is also possible to learn a tune by the dots.

 

I am sure everyone can hum to themselves old nursery rhymes, etc. If you can hum it you can find the tune on the instrument. If you just find a phrase in a tune, most are repeated 3x anyway, you have plenty of time to listen out for it, then attempt the phrase or odd notes and remember them. Next time check them out and go for another phrase, and so on. I must stress that if you can just hold a phrase in your head and repeat it to yourself umpteen times you WILL be able to transfer it to the instrument. All no different to whistling/humming a tune on the drive to work or out walking, etc.

 

I went to a session last night and someone had a suggestion for a tune to follow a set that no-one knew, so had brought the music in so people could take it home and learn it. So we all knew the first one and played it, then when the unknown tune came up the person whose tune it was, played it. Now the point is that a young player who is an excellent music reader thought he would try to read and play this tune. HE COULDN'T. No way could he keep up whilst keeping the rhythm/tone/style, etc. never mind SPEED. He studies music at university, and has to sight read for orchestra, he got the first half out then dropped it. It really does disrupt the feel good factor of playing a tune WELL. And for the comment of titles, well what if no-one knows it, and it is a *cracking* tune. Will it stop you learning it? Hope not!

 

 

As for the attitude of *can't do it*

well it sucks!

 

It took me 4 months to learn from the dots my very first tune (kerry/egans polka) 2 months to learn the 2nd, but even then not up to speed. Eventually I tried by ear and was so frustrated (still get that way) but I did get it eventually with the slow downer and a little help from an electronic tuner sitting by the computer. It is just a matter of *learning* to do something new. Each time it becomes easier.

 

The other thing that happens is that when you sit in on a session you find that quite a few tunes are played each week, those are the ones you should *learn* either by recording them for home or get the name/key and find the music on the net. Everyone thinks it is impossible when they start, but how do you account for the many people who do it, they can't all be *gifted*.

 

Last but not least.

A normal irish session consists of a few people having a bit craic between the tunes and playing till their hearts are content whatever they feel like at the time.

 

A session which relies on sheet music is *not* a normal session but a gathering of people learning to play tunes.

 

Please don't mix them up. Go to the second if you prefer, or jump in at the deep end and take a recorder/pen and paper and *feel* the styles/emotion that come from the different people playing tunes. We would never buy more than one recording of a song/tune if there was no difference in *how* it was played, there would be no point. So explore the different styles too, find one then play it at the session.

 

 

Still on the hunt for tunes

Sharron

[Sharron]

Another thing has just occurred to me

 

Before we could read/write and we were pre-school. I bet you won't find any child that cannot recite nursery rhymes. Also, when learning to read I can remember my daughter and others that would appear to read the words from the book when in fact they were not.

 

Learning by ear - maybe another thread perhaps?

 

Sharron

[geoffwright]

Yes, Jim and Clive are probably right about "more than once through each tune", but what if the rest of the session plays it exactly the same, no matter how many times you play it?.

My palate for multiple airings has been jaded by sessions where one tune is repeated (without variation), as loud as possible 6 or 8 times, solely, because the sessioneers cannot join two tunes together.

At last nights session, I decided to have a "revisit" evening, where we played tunes that had not been played for at least two months previous. Whilst variation and improvisation is to be encouraged, it is important that wannabe-sessioneers get a substantial quantity of tunes under their belts so they can appreciate and join in at other sessions.

There is a session for every night of the week in South Yorkshire and the wanabee-sessioneers get chance to practise their variations at the other sesions. My three times maximum through each tune gives them the material to practise.

 

 

[Rhomylly]

update on last night's Irish slo jam session:

 

For once I was NOT the only free-reeder there. The PA player was back, and I swear her PA was the longest one I have ever seen. She had to stand up the whole time. Oh, and there were also 2 BAs. Nice.

 

Some of us use sheet music and some of us don't. I do, but I memorize really scarily fast and hope to not use it forever. Also, on the tunes I don't know I've changed my strategy. Now I don't try to play chords or drone, and I sit quietly and listen, trying to memorize them in my mind. Next time I plan to hum along for easier memorization. This will help me when I get around to focusing on learning them, I think.

 

This one tune, totally traditional, as far as I know, Harvest Home? Well I have to laugh every time I hum it because there's this one measure that, I swear, sounds like it was written by Abba. It just has this very 70's Abba-esque feel to it. I think it starts the B part, but wouldn't swear to it. Cracks me up every time.

[Clive Thorne]

it is important that wannabe-sessioneers get a substantial quantity of tunes under their belts

Geoff,

 

I agree with that, but at the same time you don't get to learn a tune by hearing it once through! (When I say 'You' I mean 'I'). If you play a tune through a few times at least other people have a chance to hear it once and then try to join in and start to learn it.

 

Mind you I come from a 'one dance one tune' background.

 

I suppose the answer is moderation in all things. Once through a tune is not enough and 8 times is probably too many.

 

Clive.

[Helen]

Weeelll, I'm still going to the old time jam tomorrow night. I was going to wimp out because there were other things I needed to do, but I arranged to get everything covered.

 

My strategy will be the same as at the Irish jam. I will sit in the back (near the door for a fast escape if need be) and play softly on the drum, tunes that I know. I'll watch other players (on drum) and listen listen listen. I know a ton of old time tunes, I can play them on hammer dulcimer. I might take a PA to play the chords.

 

I need to play out more, I just don't. This thread has really energized me. Hopefully most of us can find sessions that play music we like in the style and tempo with which we are comfortable. Some of these sessions take some searching to discover.

 

I'd like to go listen to a lot of Irish sessions that are nearby. I won't take an instrument as I don't know how they are run, and I don't want to be rude. I'll listen a lot.

 

I think 3 times through a tune works for me. Enough to really get it in your head, not so much you want to kill yourself to get it out of your head.

 

Of course if I wimp out I'll just slink away and not tell anyone. Except Alan who keeps encouraging me.

 

Helen

[David Barnert]

It is perfectly possible to learn music by ear and leave the dots behind, it is also possible to learn a tune by the dots.

 

I am sure everyone can hum to themselves old nursery rhymes, etc. If you can hum it you can find the tune on the instrument. If you just find a phrase in a tune, most are repeated 3x anyway, you have plenty of time    to listen out for it, then attempt the phrase or odd notes and remember them. Next time check them out and go for another phrase, and so on. I must stress that if you can just hold a phrase in your head and repeat it to yourself umpteen times you WILL be able to transfer it to the instrument. All no different to whistling/humming a tune on the drive to work or out walking, etc.

What she said!

 

Oh, and:

The PA player was back, and I swear her PA was the longest one I have ever seen.

Then I guess you didn't see this one in the New York Times, earlier this week:

Edited October 17, 2003 by David Barnert

[geoffwright]

you don't get to learn a tune by hearing it once through

I don't as much learn new tunes as decide whether or not I can play most of it.

 

By a bit of tune structure and idiom knowledge, and a fair amount of gestimation, I can play along with tunes I have never heard before, especially where 4 bars are repeated. If I like it, I find out what the tune is called and go and find the dots, if not, hard luck and try and learn some more next time.

 

When playing for the others benefit, if it is a tune I want them to learn, I wll play it through half a dozen times and if they take it on board, repeat an hour later and at knock-off. If just part of a set, if I think they "should" know it, and they don't join in, I don't want to bore them so move on to another tune.

[Helen]

I like it. Wish you were closer.

Or I was closer.

Geography confuses me.

 

Helen

[Lester Bailey]

Hi Guys. Just got my internet connection back after 5 days so a bit of catching up to do.

 

Re How many times to play a tune; the sainted John Kirkpatrick puts it better than me but I agree with all he says.

 

John's thoughts

[Robert Booth]

As far as the dot/no dot arguement goes, geoffwright's comment about structure and genre knowledge pretty much sum it up for those of us who play by ear without benefit of being able to read. I find that whilst practicing by myself, I might stumble onto a tune that I have not heard or thought about since I was a mere sprat. To play it requires the original memory of the tune, a feel for the genre and some knowledge of the structure of the style... "It starts like this, so it ought to finish like this..." Whether it truely does finish like that can only be ascertained by hearing the source. If I'm alone I usually just don't give a dam. In public, I gotta be a little more circumspect.

There are those among us who have only one way of learning: by ear. As Jackie Daly wrote "... there were no tape recorders available at the time, so it was a question of keeping the tunes in my head on the way home..."

Robert

[Alan Day]

A tune normally consists of the basic tune plus ornamentation.I try to find the basic tune ,play that and then gradually find out what the ornamentation is, in that way it is possible to play along after hearing the tune only a few times through.The more difficut bits might take a bit longer.

Regards

Alan

[geoffwright]

Thinking about it, I don't think I remember tunes, I compress them a little into chords so a bar of music will become maybe 2 chords, then all you have to remember is the direction the notes move.

[JimLucas]

...I don't think I remember tunes, ... then all you have to remember is the direction the notes move.

But isn't that what a tune is?

[geoffwright]

Change the 'version' or just add some fancy bits, I get lost, thrown, give me the dots to refer to and I instantly know what the others are doing and I can skip over or fit around as necessary. With dots, I can follow multi-part band arrangements, can count umpty bar rests, can even come in on the off beat after the rests (usually). I always feel that I know where I am.

 

 

I can learn a tune off dots one evening, play it at tempo, eyes closed, and next day I cannot even hum it, show me the dots and I can sing it or play it straight off, close my eyes and play it again.

 

Quoting from the "playing by ear" thread, some people can only remember the tune, the whole tune and nothing but the tune and they are confused if they hear it differently to what they are used to, so use dots all the time as a recall.

 

Other people may not think in intervals and bars if they never see the printed music.