Anyone Have Any Info On This One?

[Guest jantinc]

I have owned this for 10 years and bought it in England. I am in Florida. The box is Rosewood and there is some sticky tape around the instrument. It is as I bought it, and I have never done anything to it. You can see some pictures of it if you click on this link, and if anyone could tell me anything, I would be most grateful. Many Thanks, Jantinc

http://homepage.mac.com/jantinc/PhotoAlbum16.html

[Stephen Chambers]

Jantinc,

 

What you have is a Maccann system duet concertina, with raised metal ends, #29234 completed on 25th March 1922. It is listed in the Wheatstone ledgers as a model No. 36, a standard 46-key of "best" quality, but it appears to actually have 49 keys, which is unusual.

 

The rosewood case appears to be older, and not to be original.

 

Here is a fingering chart for a 46-key :

 

Otherwise I would reccommend you to take a look at the www.maccann-duet.com website, to find out more about the system.

Edited June 9, 2005 by Stephen Chambers

[Guest jantinc]

Jantinc,

 

What you have is a "best" quality Maccann system duet concertina, with raised metal ends, #29234 completed on 25th March 1922. It is listed in the Wheatstone ledgers as a model No. 36, a standard 46-key of "best" quality, but it appears to actually have 49 keys.

 

The rosewood case appears to be older, and not to be original.

 

Here is a fingering chart for a 46-key :

 

Otherwise I would reccommend you to take a look at the www.maccann-duet.com website, to find out more about the system.

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[Guest jantinc]

Jantinc,

 

What you have is a "best" quality Maccann system duet concertina, with raised metal ends, #29234 completed on 25th March 1922. It is listed in the Wheatstone ledgers as a model No. 36, a standard 46-key of "best" quality, but it appears to actually have 49 keys.

 

The rosewood case appears to be older, and not to be original.

 

Here is a fingering chart for a 46-key :

 

Otherwise I would reccommend you to take a look at the www.maccann-duet.com website, to find out more about the system.

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[Guest jantinc]

Jantinc,

 

What you have is a "best" quality Maccann system duet concertina, with raised metal ends, #29234 completed on 25th March 1922. It is listed in the Wheatstone ledgers as a model No. 36, a standard 46-key of "best" quality, but it appears to actually have 49 keys.

 

The rosewood case appears to be older, and not to be original.

 

Here is a fingering chart for a 46-key :

 

Otherwise I would reccommend you to take a look at the www.maccann-duet.com website, to find out more about the system.

 

Thank you. As you say Mine appears to have 2 more buttons than portrayed on your finger chart, does this mean it is a different one. Can you explain why the difference?. Also, by "not to be original" did you mean ... not the original case for this instrument? If so, when were these wooden boxes used? Victorian era or earlier maybe?

[Stephen Chambers]

As you say  Mine appears to have 2 more buttons than portrayed on your finger chart, does this mean it is a different one. Can you explain why  the difference?.

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Either they made a mistake in the ledger, or it had extra buttons added later (or I have misread the number ?). Either way, it seems to have been made that way specially for somebody, in which case those extra buttons could be anything.

 

 

Also, by "not to be original" did you mean ... not the original case for this instrument? If so, when were these wooden boxes used? Victorian era or earlier maybe?

The original case for this instrument would have been a square leather-covered box. The wooden boxes would belong more to the Victorian era, though they were still used for some cheaper models in the early 20th century.

Edited June 9, 2005 by Stephen Chambers

[JimLucas]

As you say  Mine appears to have 2 more buttons than portrayed on your finger chart, does this mean it is a different one. Can you explain why  the difference?.

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Either they made a mistake in the ledger, or it had extra buttons added later (or I have misread the number ?). Either way, it seems to have been made that way specially for somebody, in which case those extra buttons could be anything.

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The locations of the extra buttons in the key layout would normally be a low C# in the left hand, and an E and F below the lowest G in the right hand. Jantinc, now that you have the layout, you should try playing each key to see that they do correspond... and then the three extras, to see whether they match my guesses, or are something else. (I would have been more likely to add a D than a C# to the left hand, but if they were going to do that on this one, why not where it belongs in the pattern? There's room for it, without altering the fretwork. So I think it probably is a C#.)

 

Stephen hasn't misread the number. I would say that there's an "error" in the ledger. Most likely the extra buttons were added to the design after the entry was made in the ledger. Often, such changes -- whether made before completion of the instrument or some years later -- are written in above the original entry, but your instrument suggests that they didn't always do that.

 

At first, I thought that adding 3 buttons would require redoing the fretwork, but I see now that there's room for at least one more button in the left hand without expanding the unfretted area, so maybe the standard fretwork deliberately allowed for the possibility of such expansions? Can anybody who's seen more Wheatstone duets than I have say whether that's the case?

[Stephen Chambers]

Either they made a mistake in the ledger, or it had extra buttons added later (or I have misread the number ?).

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Stephen hasn't misread the number.

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Thanks Jim, I'm glad to know the eyes haven't failed me completely, yet ! I was having serious problems with Sara's photos, as whenever I clicked on one of her thumbnails my computer froze up and I had to reboot, so I couldn't see the details of the ends.

 

 

Either way, it seems to have been made that way specially for somebody, in which case those extra buttons could be anything.

The locations of the extra buttons in the key layout would normally be a low C# in the left hand, and an E and F below the lowest G in the right hand.

Or they could even be novelty "whistle and squeaker" buttons, more common on Anglo system concertinas, but not unheard of on English and duet system instruments.

[JimLucas]

I was having serious problems with Sara's photos, as whenever I clicked on one of her thumbnails my computer froze up and I had to reboot, so I couldn't see the details of the ends.

I was able to open and download the full photos, so I saw them in all their glory detail.

 

...those extra buttons could be anything.

The locations of the extra buttons in the key layout would normally be a low C# in the left hand, and an E and F below the lowest G in the right hand.

Or they could even be novelty "whistle and squeaker" buttons, more common on Anglo system concertinas, but not unheard of on English and duet system instruments.

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Unlikely, I think. All the instruments I've seen with novelty buttons -- no Englishes, so far, but duets as well as anglos -- have them placed outside the regular array of buttons, located to be played either by the thumb or by the little finger. I have a couple of Lachenal Maccanns where that's the case.

[Stephen Chambers]

... they could even be novelty "whistle and squeaker" buttons, more common on Anglo system concertinas, but not unheard of on English and duet system instruments.

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Unlikely, I think.

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So do I Jim, but no harm warning Sara that there are other possibilities. For that matter, I've seen a large duet with some "flute organ" pipes inside it, and I've got a melodeon with one "bass" button that plays cuc, and another that plays koo !

 

By the way, I've seen an Edeophone English system made with whistle and squeaker, John Moulden, in Notting Hill, had it for sale, donkeys' years ago.

Edited June 10, 2005 by Stephen Chambers

[JimLucas]

...I've got a melodeon with one "bass" button that plays cuc, and another that plays koo !

Well, we all know that melodeon design and English design of concertinas are quite different.

 

By the way, I've seen an Edeophone English system made with whistle and squeaker, John Moulden, in Notting Hill, had it for sale, donkeys' years ago.

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Can you tell me whether the novelty buttons were included within the standard English-system button array, or were they (as I suspect) set off to the side?

[Stephen Chambers]

...I've got a melodeon with one "bass" button that plays cuc, and another that plays koo !

Well, we all know that melodeon design and English design of concertinas are quite different.

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Try telling them that, they have sometimes been known to interbreed !

 

By the way, I failed to mention that the said melodeon also has whistle and squeaker buttons, plus a "vox humana" on the treble end (switchable behind the keyboard). So The Kipper Family (are they still going at all I wonder ?) would have called it a "Tremelodeon", and I'm sure they could have had great fun with all the other gimmicks on this one !

 

By the way, I've seen an Edeophone English system made with whistle and squeaker, John Moulden, in Notting Hill, had it for sale, donkeys' years ago.

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Can you tell me whether the novelty buttons were included within the standard English-system button array, or were they (as I suspect) set off to the side?

On the Edeophone they were outside the normal 48-button array, but I would consider that on the Anglo they are within it, seeing that a 32-key with accidentals is a standard layout, more commonly encountered than those with whistle and squeaker buttons, and that on larger Anglos they are to be found replacing notes on the fourth row. Indeed, I have sometimes come across Anglos that originally had a whistle and squeaker that have been converted to semitones, and vice versa.

 

Sara,

 

Don't worry, this is known as "thread creep", and it's a common occurence around here. It isn't really relevant to your enquiry.

[JimLucas]

By the way, I've seen an Edeophone English system made with whistle and squeaker, John Moulden, in Notting Hill, had it for sale, donkeys' years ago.

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Can you tell me whether the novelty buttons were included within the standard English-system button array, or were they (as I suspect) set off to the side?

On the Edeophone they were outside the normal 48-button array, but I would consider that on the Anglo they are within it, seeing that a 32-key with accidentals is a standard layout, more commonly encountered than those with whistle and squeaker buttons, and that on larger Anglos they are to be found replacing notes on the fourth row. Indeed, I have sometimes come across Anglos that originally had a whistle and squeaker that have been converted to semitones, and vice versa.

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Well, the anglo case is somewhat ambiguous, since the "standard" keyboard of notes is commonly extended in all directions, including a left-hand thumb button, which makes it difficult to find any location that's "outside".

 

But on this thread's instrument, I'm still expecting actual notes under those "extra" buttons.

[Stephen Chambers]

But on this thread's instrument, I'm still expecting actual notes under those "extra" buttons.

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So do I Jim, but no harm warning Sara that there are other possibilities.

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[JimLucas]

...no harm warning Sara...

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"Sara"?

[Stephen Chambers]

...no harm warning Sara...

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"Sara"?

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That is the lady's name, but I hadn't realised that she had only used it in her email to me. I hope she doesn't mind me revealing it here. Apologies, Sara !

[John Wild]

So The Kipper Family (are they still going at all I wonder ?) would have called it a "Tremelodeon",

 

Sid kipper (The Rising Son) is still going, but Old Henry moved into his retirement home many years ago.

 

- John Wild

[Stephen Chambers]

So The Kipper Family (are they still going at all I wonder ?) would have called it a "Tremelodeon",

 

Sid kipper (The Rising Son) is still going, but Old Henry moved into his retirement home many years ago.

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John,

 

I have sad news : Sid Kipper now has his own website ( http://www.sidkipper.co.uk/ ), where you will find his father Henry's obituary (from the Trunch Trumpet of 31st July 2000).

 

It seems that "He ran away from the Old Folkies Home to which he had been retired, and the family lost touch with him. Then, just two weeks before his death, he turned up out of the blue at the family cottage, and despite the change of locks managed to gain entrance. There they found him, sitting in his old chair by the fire as if nothing had happened. Where he had been is still a mystery, but there may be a clue in the fact that a number of widows from all over England attended his funeral."

 

Sid related how : "... when we finally retired him, he used to send me threatening letters. He used to threaten to make a come back.

 

So I've been very busy, because we had him cremated, to make sure, and I din't have long to do all those things which he'd promised I could do over his dead body."

 

The Trunch Trumpet went on to say that "Henry's ashes were spread over the stage at the Sidmouth International Festival, and then swept into a flower bed, from which they were able to watch a performance by Rolf Harris that very same evening. This was almost his last wish, as he had actually wanted the performance to be by Roy Harris. May he rest in pieces."

Edited June 12, 2005 by Stephen Chambers