Microvox concertina mic

[rachelt]

Morning? Does anyone have news on Microvox? One of my mics has died but they seem to have gone out of business? Anyone use an alternative? 3 gigs next weekend.....

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

What is microvox I have never heard of it?  Is it literally a microphone [I'm assuming it is] I would say do not amplify anything .. play live acoustically.  From experience where I live [York UK] we are swamped by dozens of over amplified music in the streets.. and it distorts the  sound.  People will listen more intensely when they hear real sound produced with little artificial aids.

[rachelt]

Play in a ceilidh band, need that amplification!

[Jim Besser]

4 hours ago, rachelt said:

Morning? Does anyone have news on Microvox? One of my mics has died but they seem to have gone out of business? Anyone use an alternative? 3 gigs next weekend.....

 

Don't know the status of the company, but I gave up using Microvox a few years ago.  I found the mics unreliable (had 3 sets over the years) and finicky;  sound engineers who worked with us found them very difficult to work into the band mix.

 

The preferred sound option for many concertinists are high quality clip on condenser mics.  

 

I don't disagree, but this wouldn't work for me, since I change instruments frequently, sometimes in the middle of a set. And I really dislike being tied down by cables.

 

My ceilidh band has done dances at a venue with a superb professional sound system and engineers to go with it; they convinced me (after trying the Microvoxes and telling me they didn't work well) that my best option  is a pair of good directional condenser mics on stands, one pointed at each end of the instrument.   I bought a pair of Shure KSM 137s and now use them for all gigs.

 

 I play in a VERY loud band - drums, horns, electric guitar - and the sound with this setup is very natural but really cuts through the chaos. The mics work very well in varied acoustic environments and seem to require minimal adjustment.  The downside - they aren't cheap, but good sound rarely is.

 

This is not the best solution for everybody, but it's what works for me playing for ceilidhs and contras.

 

 

[Clive Thorne]

Fixed microphones are fine if you don't want to move around while playing. If you are playing standing up then I guess that even a small move from side to side will affect the balance. If you are sitting down then they are probably fine.

 

However they have the advantage that you can move away from them if you want to!

 

My wife plays saxophones and has used clip-ons in the past (Seinhessere 608 I think). Great until they stop working, which seems to be just over a year. She went through two and is now back on a stand mounted mic.

 

[Jim Besser]

1 hour ago, Clive Thorne said:

Fixed microphones are fine if you don't want to move around while playing. If you are playing standing up then I guess that even a small move from side to side will affect the balance. If you are sitting down then they are probably fine.

 

 

 

Everything is a tradeoff.  Clip ons are very convenient in some playing situations. Yes, moving around while playing does't work with mics on stands, and sometimes I miss that - although when I used the Microvoxes, I tended to get tangled up in the cables, probably more due to my clumsiness than to any inherent flaw in the system.

 

As far as variations in gain with bellows movement - I've actually tested this with professional sound engineers. With good condenser mics like the Shure 137s, and with normal traditional concertina bellows, the difference in volume between fully closed and fully extended is minimal.  It might be noticeable if you are playing solo; in a band, it's not a factor.  Especially not in my very loud band.

 

As with so many things, the "right" mic setup depends on style of play, the playing environment, personal preferences, etc.  If I was playing a solo concert, which I don't do, and if I wasn't constantly switching between the CG and GD, I'd probably use a good condenser clip on; for what I do, the Shures on stands works best. I dislike the Microvoxes, but  I have a good friend and sometimes bandmate who uses them and loves them.

[rachelt]

This is all really useful thanks! Considering my options x

[Clive Thorne]

Jim,

 

I hadn't even thought about movement in the bellows themselves, but as you say I'd expect that to be almost ignorable.

[hjcjones]

16 hours ago, Jim Besser said:

f I was playing a solo concert, which I don't do, and if I wasn't constantly switching between the CG and GD, I'd probably use a good condenser clip on; for what I do, the Shures on stands works best. 

Interesting.  For me it's the opposite.  For playing in a ceilidh band, often on a fairly small stage, I find mic stands add to the clutter, are more likely to get knocked when I change instruments, and more likely to pick up sound from the other instruments in the band.  For that purpose it's clip-ons for both my concertinas and melodeons, and I only have a mic for recorder and vocals. I also have more freedom to move around.

 

If you look at a band like Leveret, they use instrument mics in concert, although usually with a few widely-placed mics on stands for ambience.

 

Good-quality instrument mics can be as good as stand mics for live performance.  However I've never been a fan of Microvox, not least for their method of attachment using velcro.  Instrument mics can be more fragile, sometimes due to poor design. I used to use AKG C416s on my melodeons, which were notorious for breaking due to poor design of the attachment clip - they've now replaced it with the C516 which is far more robust and I've had no problems with them.  They're not easy to attach to concertinas though, and for that I use Thomann T-bone CC75s which clip to the hand straps of my anglo.

 

 

[Kathryn Wheeler]

Not on concertina but I think they sound very similar:

 

I’ve used microvox mics on a piano accordion for years and yes the Velcro could be very annoying (I had a long strip of three mics on the r hand side that fell off at least once… which is a heavy thing to have swinging around mid air!  The single bass mic fell off even more!) The other problem is that if I was too close to speakers (including foldback speakers) there could be interference/feedback.  I got used to having to tell sound people and some didn’t seem to believe me until they realised it was true..

 

They’d pick up a lot of noise from other things as they were external mics.  This meant you couldn’t turn the mic up on the mixer lots - a problem in large venues.

 

And yes it felt like it hampered my ability to move around because of that. 

 

[hjcjones]

One of the problems with Microvox is that they are omni-directional, which means they pick up sound from all directions which makes them vulnerable to feedback, as well as sound from other instruments.  Most of the alternatives are cardioid, which only pick up sound from a zone immediately in front of the mic.

 

Microvox still has a live website, maybe the OP should give them a call.

 

http://www.mrmicrophone.com/microvoxsite/products.htm

 

Personally I'd take the opportunity to look at alternatives, which aren't necessarily much more expensive.

Edited June 28, 2022 by hjcjones

[Jim Besser]

3 hours ago, hjcjones said:

Interesting.  For me it's the opposite.  For playing in a ceilidh band, often on a fairly small stage, I find mic stands add to the clutter, are more likely to get knocked when I change instruments, and more likely to pick up sound from the other instruments in the band.  For that purpose it's clip-ons for both my concertinas and melodeons, and I only have a mic for recorder and vocals. I also have more freedom to move around.

 

 

 

It's a pick your poison kind of thing; there's probably no perfect solution to on-stage sound for concertinas, and certainly no universal solution. 

 

Stage clutter is definitely an issue in my band, and the need for 2 mic stands for the concertina adds to the mess.  As I said, if I didn't constantly switch instruments, my calculus regarding clip-ons vs standing mics might be different.  It's just not practical, moving clip-ons from instrument to instrument (and especially not in the middle of a dance medley!).  Having redundant clip ons would be expensive and produce a nightmarish tangle of cables.

 

 

[hjcjones]

6 minutes ago, Jim Besser said:

 

It's a pick your poison kind of thing

Absolutely.  My instrument changes are between melodeon and concertina, and each have their own onboard mics, so that works for me.  I don't usually change concertinas mid-set, but it's easy and fairly quick to transfer the mics between dances (in fact, I probably could do it mid-set should the need arise, as my band also has others who can carry the tune while I mess about, and I usually delay coming in until a suitable point in the music).  However if your own needs are different then I can understand that a different set-up might be better.

 

When I play a solo gig then it's less important for the mics to be close to the instrument, and in that case I would be happy to use mics on stands, if that was what the sound engineer advised.  They would probably have better-quality mics than my clip-ons. although these are entirely adequate for band work.

 

The important point is that stand or clip-on mics are not straight substitutes, they each have their pros and cons and which is most suitable will depend on the circumstances.

[Jim Besser]

54 minutes ago, hjcjones said:

The important point is that stand or clip-on mics are not straight substitutes, they each have their pros and cons and which is most suitable will depend on the circumstances.

 

Yep.  That's it in a nutshell.

 

Another critical variable in this discussion makes assessing different mic systems even more difficult: the skill of the sound engineer.  A good sound person can often make mediocre gear sound very good; a bad one will usually muck up sound even with the very best equipment.  I know this from hard and sometimes bitter experience.

 

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Jim Besser

[Steve Mansfield]

Interesting stuff as I'm looking to move away from Microvox for EC (swapping between two boxes, Treble and baritone).

 

What specific clip-on mics do people use / recommend? 

[hjcjones]

There was a discussion on this a few years ago:

 

https://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?/topic/19119-microphone-recommendations-please/