Dating Lachenal English

[alan@bcorkett.freeserve.co.uk]

Re-edited June 25.

A Lachenal (name on inside) Engklish concertina to value, with a number 57829 I am trying to value and discover how old it is.

The formula on one website suggested 1850 plus the serial number divided by 769 which gave 1925, recent reports suggested earlier 1922, 1915.

 

Any more accurate versions or formulae would be encouraging. One valuation suggested £650 if restored to playing order; at current condition with leaking bellows, valves, needs tuning; possibly only half that figure.

 

Description- Hexagonal, 5 fold bellows, Brass reeds, 48 bone keys black, white and red, wooden ends.

Lachenal address given as 8 Little James St., Gray Inn Rd. There is also an East Dulwich, London UK., address, possibly the 1st purchaser's.

 

Any further help with this would be much appreciated. ABC

Edited June 25, 2005 by alan@bcorkett.freeserve.co.uk

[Stephen Chambers]

I have been presented with a Lachenal (name on inside) Engklish concertina to value, with a number 57829 I am trying to discover how old it is.

The formula on one website suggested 1850 plus the serial number divided by 769 which gave 1925. Any more accurate versions or formulae would be encouraging.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Alan,

 

A number of people are working on trying to establish a way of more accurately dating Lachenal concertinas. Unfortunately, nobody knows what happened to the firm's records, and few receipts have survived, but gradually we are building up a set of parameters to establish dates for certain serial numbers.

 

I would suggest that the result of your calculation is pretty close , though I think that 1922 may be more accurate.

[rmerris]

I would like to concur wuth Stephen's dating (circa 1922) for your Lachenal concertina. (I work with Stephen Chambers, Wes Williams, and others on the Lachenal dating.)

 

We have documented some sales receipts for late English-system Lachenals, as follows:

 

#58887 10 July 1923

#60013 6 July 1928

#60176 1929 (I do not have the month/day at hand)

#60263 19 Sept. 1930

 

All of these instruments are Edeophones.

 

You have described the instrument as wood-end, bone-button, brass-reed, and 5-fold.

 

I would guess that it is a 48-key Edeophone, but would appreciate confirmation.

[Rand]

The serial number of my Lachenal English is 57410. When I purchased it from Chris Algar he told me it dated around 1915. He didn't say why he thought that; an estimate based on long experience, perhaps.

 

Rand

[alan@bcorkett.freeserve.co.uk]

Can a 48 key Edeophone be six sided? ABC

[JimLucas]

You have described the instrument as wood-end, bone-button, brass-reed, and 5-fold.

I would guess that it is a 48-key Edeophone, but would appreciate confirmation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Randy, I've seen some unusual Edeophones, but never one with either bone buttons or brass reeds, and I think the standard 48b Edeophone bellows was 6-fold. Not that what you describe is impossible, but I think it would have to be a very special order for a deluxe model -- which the Edeophone was -- to have it incorporate those features normally associated with cheaper-model concertinas.

 

Can a 48 key Edeophone be six sided?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nope. As I understand it, part of the registered "Edeophone" design is the 12-sidedness. Every instrument I've ever seen with that designation was 12-sided.

 

Are the ends raised in the button area, or are they simply flat? If the former, it might be a New Model, but once again that seems unlikely with brass reeds and bone buttons. With brass reeds and bone buttons, it's almost certainly a less expensive model, though not necessarily "cheapest". What is the wood the ends are made of? Mahogany? Rosewood? Walnut? Ebony? Amboyna?

[rmerris]

My last comment was a mess. The serial numbers/descriptions that I provided were accurate. But my final comments--well, I cannot explain where my mind was. I will not try, but will thank Jim Lucas for his follow-up comments..

[robert watters]

My last comment was a mess. The serial numbers/descriptions that I provided were accurate. But my final comments--well, I cannot explain where my mind was. I will not try, but will thank Jim Lucas for his follow-up comments..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the informative discussion, guys! I am selling a Lachenal on an internet auction and like Alan, who started off this particular thread , I thought mine was 1925. Same description as his but bellows not original! My no. is 58856, There's a slight possibility it's 53856 but I think it's the former. So now I have a slightly earlier date of 1923! I have a Wheatstone (I thought ) but having seen a picture online suspect it is a Lachenal of good quality! I've been too lazy to open it up, as it played well. So I suppose I'll be looking to get a date on that, but I'm not selling that!

 

After further inspection , I've managed to convince myself that it's 53856. So 1923 is perhaps a better bet!

I've gotten over my Lethargy and opened the Box!

My other English turns out to be a Wheatstone after all! No. 10932 dates it about 1859.

Edited August 19, 2005 by robert watters