Lovely discord! [if it's intended to be?]

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

A rather naughty topic - a bit mischievous; but I admit sometimes I have hit the wrong button, or  key, and  unintentionally.  After all concertinas have small studs for buttons, and are, generally, close together, to manage all the time; at speed often!

But then there's that moment of mischief occurs in the mind of performer that says .. "Go on be daring, have some fun, and ditch the rigid rules"... and the discord can then resound! Much to the aching ears of anyone nearby!

You will all have that same experience I am sure of that clashing note moment [which you can say is 'quite deliberate'] .. but they are interesting when they occur, and concertinas, particularly, to me. due to their timbre of sound, lend themselves to this effect very well [intended or not].

It can also be quite effective for atmosphere, or to emphasise a weird theme maybe?

Although I try and make notes sound nice, I have now and again got going with the discord too, just for the devilment of it?

Any one else had similar 'Rebel' moments between the sweet music?

 

[malcolm clapp]

I often end a tune, particularly a slower number, with a last bar rallentando and a 6th either as a chord or an arpeggio, e.g. CEG plus A. Started off as a mistake, but has now become a bit of a trademark of my playing, and a good conversation starter. Call it a discord if you like, but I reckon it's there to stay....   🙂

Edited June 19, 2022 by malcolm clapp
Mis-spelled Italian words...grrrrrrrrrrr

[Chris Ghent]

Malcolm! Demonstration called for..!

[malcolm clapp]

 

Like at the end of this clip, Chris.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSelMln3hAY&list=PL1sxNfGXQ05jz62JSb9CqZuDADB6uwJaO&index=7

 

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

Sounds all fine to me( including the little flourish at the end). 

[Kathryn Wheeler]

Leaning into discords can be wonderful.  Also I love a good unconventional harmony. The placement of buttons on a concertina often suggest interesting things to try.

[malcolm clapp]

A quote from an old Mudcat post by Brian Peters seems relevant:

 

<The (other) thing about a 30-button anglo is that there's plenty of opportunity for serendipity - you hit the 'wrong' button on the LH and a weird combination of notes gives you a clashing or unworldly harmony that sometimes stinks but sometimes makes you think "Hmm, that might come in useful.">

 

The discussion centred on the somewhat unusual chording used by the late Peter Bellamy, though Brian suggests that Peter's chording was in no way accidental, but well planned and thought out. I'm not sure whether I agree, but maybe have a listen to recordings of Peter on (say) YouTube if you want to hear some unusual (weird?) harmonies.....

 

 

 

 

[Mikefule]

The rules of music are a combination of cultural preference, convention, and maths.  There is a measurable reason why an octave sounds like it does, and for the interval of a 5th, and for the cycle of 5ths.  However, there is a subjective element to why some combinations sound better than others, and what one culture or era calls a discord, another calls good.

 

Very often, a discord sounds OK because it is a fragment of a different chord.  You intend to play the notes C and C and you accidentally play C and A: you have the bottom half of an inverted A minor, rather than the 1st and 5th of a C major.  You play a C major chord and add a 6th.  You have CEGB, which is essentially C major (CEG) overlapping with E minor (EGB). An interval of a 5th played "the wrong way up ( GC rather than CG) is a 4th, and so on.

 

Occasionally, a legitimate note in a tune will sound wrong until you have heard the tune many times then it sounds right.  There is one such note in the B music of Squire Woods Lamentation on Refusal of His Halfpence.

 

Sometimes a "wrong note" is a "right note" played too early or too late.  often, it will resolve as you continue playing.  That moment of tension and resolution adds to the musicality.  Music that never offered any hint of surprise or discord might eventually become very bland indeed.

 

Any fool can break the rules, but it is foolish to follow the rules to the point of destruction.  It's similar to the rules of grammar: chat would sound very stilted were we always to abide thereby and up with which eventually we would not put.

 

 

[Anglo-Irishman]

I find most TV comercials discordant - in the worst sense. However, I make two exceptions: Guinness and Mercedes. They often contain poetry and/or wisdom. @Mikefule's posting reminded me of a nice Mercedes text:

"Know the rules. Break them."

Cheers,

John

[wunks]

I have a mid range F on both side of my duet.  On the RHS it is conveniently located next to the air button.  I can use it as an embedded drone for an effect somewhat like that of a lap dulcimer.  Many notes that would sound discordant with other harmonies sound hauntingly beautiful this way if they don't linger on the tonic (F).

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

You can get a wonderfully clashing couple of notes (30 key anglo) if you press the G natural note, middle row left side and at same time the G sharp outer row. Bellows in and then out.. holding these two left hand notes .. gives a fantastic two note discordant sound; reminding me of a diesel railroad train hooting.

[seanc]

Are we going to open up the equal temper vs just temper, , mean tone can of worms here?

 

[Paul_Hardy]

11 hours ago, SIMON GABRIELOW said:

.. gives a fantastic two note discordant sound; reminding me of a diesel railroad train hooting.

 

UK train horn warnings are usually two separate notes in sequence - High then Low. High is 370 Hz so F#. Low is 311 Hz, so D#.

 

American trains play a chord, a very common three-note one is 311/370/466 Hz, so D#/F#/A#. Very evocative if you play it on a concertina!

 

Five note US horns duplicate the D# at octave (622 Hz), and add a C (523 Hz). Even better!

 

Different manufacturers used different base frequencies but similar intervals.

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

Thanks for that very interesting dicertation on the subject. Musical trains .. 😃