Deox-c & Tarnish

[Stephen DOUGLASS]

I'v seen good reports of Deox-C for removing rust from reed  in this forum. I'v tested out a couple of reeds, and it has removed rust nicely. But the solution has tarnished the tongue with a blackish color, even when cleaned with meths type solution. The smoother rear of the tongue seems more pronounced. Does anyone with experience with this product have any thoughts on whether this is typical or not...and/or would it affect the reed performance ?

Thanks

[Clive Thorne]

When using it on car parts any black generally wipes or washes off fairly easily if you do t as soon as it comes out of the solution, but getting in to wipe the rear side of a reed might be difficult. You might try one of those fibre glass pen things, or the brass version. The problem with the fibre glass ones is that they leave a dust behind, so you'd need to clean them out thoroughly afterwards.

 

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Clive Thorne

[Stephen DOUGLASS]

Thanks Clive, I have the fibre glass pen and have made attempts. The steel of the underside has a 'blue' coating and I think that coating is reacting with the solution and seems fixed after the 'bath' and cleaning. I'm going from Deox-c to water for rinsing and then 'meths' for final wipe down.It may be that it does not affect the reed, just not sure.

[Stephen DOUGLASS]

Pic of reeds in rust removal bath

IMG_4564.HEIC

Edited June 15, 2022 by Stephen DOUGLASS

[Don Taylor]

I am no chemist (hopefully a real one will chime in) but I used to own a steel sailboat and fighting rust was a continuous (mostly losing) battle.  I used to use a product with the delightful double-entendre name of 'Naval Jelly'.

 

The makers of Deox-c do not disclose what the acive ingredient is in their product, but I suspect that, like Naval Jelly, it is dilute phosphoric acid (which is also in Coca-Cola, but I digress).  Phosphoric acid converts iron oxide to iron phosphate which results in a black or dark grey residue, most of which can be brushed off.  What is left is pretty inert unlike iron oxide (rust) which is hygroscopic and continues to convert more and more iron into iron oxide.  Rust usually looks much worse that it really is (not always, just usually) as its volume is about 9x the volume of the iron consumed in making it - so converting it to iron phosphate and removing the result does not (usually) result in significant loss of metal.  I say usually because if you let rust really get working for a long time then the resulting pits will be so deep that the reed will be done for.  Surface rust can be fixed, deep pits not.

 

The long-term solution is to inspect and, if necessary, clean the reeds of any surface rust maybe once a year and to do your best to not store your concertina in high humidity environments -  you really do not want to have moisture condensing on the reeds and then being ever so slowly turned into rust because "Rust Never Sleeps and "Water is Patient".  There you go, a Neil Young and a Doctor Who quote in the same sentence!

[Stephen DOUGLASS]

Don, an educational and entertaining post. Thanks

Clive, the fiber glass brush is removing nicely, but I'm going to wait til a brass pen brush arrives, before I attempt further. It's just not pleasant stuff.

[Clive Thorne]

On 6/15/2022 at 3:31 PM, Don Taylor said:

I am no chemist (hopefully a real one will chime in) but I used to own a steel sailboat and fighting rust was a continuous (mostly losing) battle.  I used to use a product with the delightful double-entendre name of 'Naval Jelly'.

 

The makers of Deox-c do not disclose what the acive ingredient is in their product, but I suspect that, like Naval Jelly, it is dilute phosphoric acid (which is also in Coca-Cola, but I digress).  Phosphoric acid converts iron oxide to iron phosphate which results in a black or dark grey residue, most of which can be brushed off.  What is left is pretty inert unlike iron oxide (rust) which is hygroscopic and continues to convert more and more iron into iron oxide.  Rust usually looks much worse that it really is (not always, just usually) as its volume is about 9x the volume of the iron consumed in making it - so converting it to iron phosphate and removing the result does not (usually) result in significant loss of metal.  I say usually because if you let rust really get working for a long time then the resulting pits will be so deep that the reed will be done for.  Surface rust can be fixed, deep pits not.

 

The long-term solution is to inspect and, if necessary, clean the reeds of any surface rust maybe once a year and to do your best to not store your concertina in high humidity environments -  you really do not want to have moisture condensing on the reeds and then being ever so slowly turned into rust because "Rust Never Sleeps and "Water is Patient".  There you go, a Neil Young and a Doctor Who quote in the same sentence!

I believe that the main active ingredient is citric acid.

[Stephen DOUGLASS]

I wish it wasn't so...but after trying out brass, steel and nylon 'pens' for removing rust from the reeds, the fibreglass pen was still the most effective.... Mask and gloves on!