Bastari Hayden button fixed

[David Colpitts]

Well, last night just before bed I thought I was really in for it:  the much-loved and heavily-used-before-it-came-to-me "first generation" Bastari 46 button Hayden Duet got a stuck note and a button hanging out.  I had read a bit  about the older Bastaris' aluminum wear-out on the lever, and didn't quite know what to expect. I imagined removing the button, taping the reed hole, and going to the ButtonBox Repair Shop for some fancy metal repair.   When I got it apart,  I discovered a short, thin right-angle brass pin sitting on the dining room table.  Turns out it's a pivot pin keeping the button lever in place in a slot over a spring, and it had just fallen out.  I was able to replace it with needle-nose, and then of course spent 20 minutes on the "upside down button dance" to get all the buttons back in their holes.  Even with several times' worth of prior experience, it required quite a few attempts, with gentler and gentler approaches before I got them where they belonged.  Sometimes, as my late Dad would say, "you just have to hold your mouth right."

 

Should I have put a drop of some sort of glue on the outside bend  of the brass pin to prevent another fall-out?

 

Anyway, just thought I'd share my relief, and of course my continued enjoyment of the Hayden.

 

 

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

It's surprising what goes on inside any concertina; my one is completely different kind; but I would say [as I have advised before] never make any adjustments that cannot be later undone [unscrewed or untacked] if need be.

I have made some internal adjustments to my [Anglo type]  over the years, and even if they do not show on the outside, I still tried to do them as carefully as I could manage even so.

[David Barnert]

I haven’t had my Bastari apart in so long I don’t remember the details of how it’s put together in there. Did you take a look at the other pivot pins to see if there was something different about this one? Thinking back now, I think I remember that one end was bent in a right angle and the other end was flattened like a tiny rivet.

 

12 hours ago, David Colpitts said:

and then of course spent 20 minutes on the "upside down button dance" to get all the buttons back in their holes.

 

It’s only marginally easier on my Wheatstone. I don’t have to turn it upside down, but all the buttons have to be standing straight up in their exact positions to line up with the holes, and if any of them isn’t, any attempt to correct it is liable to upset a neighboring button. I’ve had to do it dozens of times in the past week.

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

Sounds similar insides to my Hohner branded Anglo [made via Stagi in Italy..] Also possessing numerous light metal lever, pistons, and pads. The positioning is crucial; one slightly out of line, and it can catch on opposite lever, or sound off when not needed. Very mildest adjustments I have made overcome most of the little annoyances, ensuring levers go up and down without sticking [years back put silicone lube on; never had to do it again; that was back in 2000!]  

This photo attached here may be similar to your description? Photo made years ago when  I was replacing parts.

[David Barnert]

33 minutes ago, SIMON GABRIELOW said:

This photo attached here may be similar to your description?

 

Yeah, that looks familiar...

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

Replying ( myself) a while after your own topic, if it's similar to your instrument ( Bastari) My one was no doubt made in Italy.

And although it has issues of similar kind to your own, I have still a lot of affection for the big sound I get from the steel reeds.

You can, as you will know, make slight adjustments to inside, with care, and sometimes barely anything more than replacing a button, or even putting on a new piece of the tube under button seems to help. They are really very simply made inside and so with care it is usually possible to make your own adjustments ( I have found). But I never do anything that is not reversible, or removable, if need be, in future.( No glue used) fines screw, or tubing, all removable.

[David Colpitts]

Well, Simon and David...some similarities to the Anglo, but some things not so similar.  Of course, I fogot to take a picture, so some things hazy already.  Basically, David, the pins I looked at in addition to the offending displaced one I only checked to see if they were firmly seated.  All those I touched to test were indeed firmly seated.  They all looked like they were just sharpened on the "business end" and plain round wire (paper clip thickness, or so) at the end that stuck out. And, Simon, because of the more "radial" pattern of the Hayden layout, there were not (or at least not as many) straight-line sharings of a longer "axle" rod, as in your Anglo. In fact, 26 holes, levers, pads, buttons on that side alone, so about twice the complexity and crowding. And, no tubes....metal-to-metal with teeny rivets, and the pivot pins up the arms a bit from the rivets.  The springs were like tiny coils dropped into small holes, with the bottom of the lever arm fitting into the slot above the springs, and the assembly held by the little bent pins.

 

I am glad to hear you haven't taken the Bastari Hayden apart in a long time, David.  That's a good omen....

 

I also have an old Bastari 40 button G/D Anglo, which I suspect will be apart in the next year or so, with an eye towards what I think is tubing going funky....

 

To be continued

[David Barnert]

Well, I did it. I took it apart and took a picture. No good reason except for the implied challenge here, and knowing full well of the one-eyed upside-down hanging button dance I would have to do to put it back together (although perhaps if I remembered how little fun it would be and how long it would take I’d like to think I would have talked myself out of it). You can see by the way the buttons don’t stand straight up (unlike Simon’s) why the upside-down idea is the only way to do this. I deliberately opened the left side so there would be fewer buttons to worry about.

 

So my memory after all these decades about the riveted ends was wrong.

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by David Barnert
formatting

[David Colpitts]

Oh, sure...the left side!  So, the main batch of reeds does have the shared "axle" like the Anglo, no?  And, just for "true confessions" here.....Did it take 5 tries?  10?  I think I was on number 12 or 15, but was worried about hyperventilation and about to quit when, voila!  And, for what it's worth, the buttons are, at least for now, way less akimbo than they always were/are.  Maybe just "flexing" them around their pivots loosened 'em up a bit, so gravity can play its role?  

 

 

[David Barnert]

2 hours ago, David Colpitts said:

Did it take 5 tries?  10?

 

I didn’t count. I’m not even sure what counts as a try. All I know is with my neck hyperextended like that for so long I could feel the decrease in blood flow to my brain.

[David Colpitts]

That's the feeling.  And, my guess is "concertina face" was on me the whole time I fussed with it.  My dear wife asked if there was any way she could help....My guess is an articulated adjustable boom arrangement to hold the thing about 6 feet in the air, and perfectly  horizontal.  My biggest problem was that after one (even slightly) imperfect approach, one or more buttons would be knocked crooked, and had to be jostled back to vertical for the next try....I wonder if Mr. Snopes can do it on the first try, after years of practice?

[Stephen Chambers]

On 5/8/2022 at 4:03 AM, David Barnert said:

It’s only marginally easier on my Wheatstone. I don’t have to turn it upside down, but all the buttons have to be standing straight up in their exact positions to line up with the holes, and if any of them isn’t, any attempt to correct it is liable to upset a neighboring button. I’ve had to do it dozens of times in the past week.

 

You should watch the out takes from the [Wheatstone] Concertina Factory newsreel, to see a professional  having the same problems, starting at 9.56: 

 

 

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

I am glad there was no sound on newsreel! That lady in factory was probably cursing something horrible; trying to get those buttons to go through holes! ( Poor thing)!

[David Colpitts]

Thanks, Stephen.  That makes me feel better....I can't imagine doing it if I didn't turn the whole thing upside down....maybe the rivets, when new, would have helped the buttons stay upright, but in my instrument's case, they just fell off to the sides when placed down that way.

 

David B...We didn't do so badly, eh?  After all, she's the professional!  And Simon, she struggled doing it "your" way.

[wunks]

5 hours ago, David Colpitts said:

That's the feeling.  And, my guess is "concertina face" was on me the whole time I fussed with it.  My dear wife asked if there was any way she could help....My guess is an articulated adjustable boom arrangement to hold the thing about 6 feet in the air, and perfectly  horizontal.  My biggest problem was that after one (even slightly) imperfect approach, one or more buttons would be knocked crooked, and had to be jostled back to vertical for the next try....I wonder if Mr. Snopes can do it on the first try, after years of practice?

'E jest tosses the whole mess into the air with a flip o' the wrist pizza style an' it comes down pat 'n true. I seen 'im do it!.....😄

[Don Taylor]

I find that a long, thin bamboo kebab skewer often helps to re-orient an errant button while the concertina end is over the other buttons.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Don Taylor

[David Colpitts]

Thanks, Wunks.  I bet you have!

 

And, Don, I scoured the kitchen for just such a bamboo tool, but sadly only had metal skewers and chopsticks; both were too thick to do the job without creating so much collateral clearance that others fell out....

[wunks]

11 minutes ago, Don Taylor said:

I find that a long, thin bamboo kebab skewer often helps to re-orient an errant button while the concertina end is over the other buttons.

Dental tool or make a tool from a bit of copper wire.  Used to make em for setting sound posts on a fiddle.  By the way Bob can, with a few winks and grimaces, convert a Jeffries anglo to a duet in mid-air (the buttons can end up any old where).  The reverse is much more difficult.