Feedback on Regondi score editing project

[Neil Thornock]

Regondi's Three Waltzes: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eY0AUSb3PR1Xpn33hAwG-nmtFF89igR-/view?usp=sharing

 

I've started creating modern editions of Regondi (he turns 200 this year!). I know the target audience for this music is quite tiny but figured I'd throw it in here and ask for some feedback.

 

These are intended as performance materials, not any type of scholarly edition, for which I have neither patience nor use at this point. Still, I have two main questions:

 

1) These old scores are prone to various errors (wrong accidentals, inconsistencies, etc.). I'm correcting obvious errors. I'd like to just leave them uncommented on -- folks can consult original editions if they want I guess. But what do you think? Should I make note of these corrections on the score, or in back matter, or not worry about them?

 

2) Fingerings. My take on it right now is to just leave them out. My instrument is too small, fingerings are also error prone, folks might have different fingering ideas, etc.

 

3) Any other input?

 

In any case, there's the score if anyone is interested in it. It may still need some fine-toothed combing but I think it's pretty good...

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

Wow, what a wonderful project!

I am aware of Regondi, and his phenomenal abilities ( concertina).

Of course he was English concertina, and as Anglo man myself, I feel it is not my main instrument technically; but I commend you on your dedication.

I would say put little notes in ( appendix) perhaps of where you have corrected the music, so that someone can refer to it. And I imagine that fingering indication numbers may be best left to player? (Just my own  thoughts, as contemporary squeeze box composer player ( living in a different era)!

Great project !

[juris]

13 hours ago, Neil Thornock said:

Regondi's Three Waltzes: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eY0AUSb3PR1Xpn33hAwG-nmtFF89igR-/view?usp=sharing

 

I've started creating modern editions of Regondi (he turns 200 this year!). I know the target audience for this music is quite tiny but figured I'd throw it in here and ask for some feedback.

 

These are intended as performance materials, not any type of scholarly edition, for which I have neither patience nor use at this point. Still, I have two main questions:

 

1) These old scores are prone to various errors (wrong accidentals, inconsistencies, etc.). I'm correcting obvious errors. I'd like to just leave them uncommented on -- folks can consult original editions if they want I guess. But what do you think? Should I make note of these corrections on the score, or in back matter, or not worry about them?

 

2) Fingerings. My take on it right now is to just leave them out. My instrument is too small, fingerings are also error prone, folks might have different fingering ideas, etc.

 

3) Any other input?

 

In any case, there's the score if anyone is interested in it. It may still need some fine-toothed combing but I think it's pretty good...

 

[juris]

Hi Neil, Thanks for posting this. I just tried the first 16 bars and there seems to be an error on the 3rd beat of the 7th bar

[Neil Thornock]

Hi Juris, thanks for giving it a bit of a play-through. Like I cryptically mentioned, I only have a tiny EC (a slow breathy Jack at that) so I can't try these pieces out properly.

 

Yeah that chord is certainly crunchy! But it's the correct harmony there and at tempo slides right by. It reminds me of learning to play Bach's Passacaglia years ago. Slow practice made every chord seem dissonant and terrible, but once I got it up to speed it sounded wonderful.

 

Simon, thank you for the encouragement and your thoughts about it.

[juris]

Hi Neil, This is the first Regondi piece I ever had a go at on the concertina. I think there could be some uncertainty with melody in the 7th bar as well. Is it transcribed by computer? I tried some more tonight and found in measure 18 some confusion with the triplet notation leading one to think the 3 is a fingering by its placement. I'm by no means any authority on the music of Regondi but used to play a charming study in C major for the guitar. Do you mind sharing your source? 

[Neil Thornock]

Here's the edition I used to engrave it.

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20120302045755/http://www.ivanopaterno.it/web_01/conservatorio/concertina/regondi/tre_valzer/tre_valzer.pdf

 

The 7th bar works due to the way the various pitches are resolving either up or down, and so we get the D natural (resolving down) against the D sharp (resolving up). You can find similar situations in other classical music -- not terribly common, but certainly not rare either. The harmony in much of Regondi's music is rather chromatic, like Victorian music in general, and sometimes quite surprising.

 

You're right about the triplet notation there. Kinda confusing placement. I could put a bracket on the triplet, but these editions never used brackets, and visually I don't like it. I'd probably just do what this original edition does and leave the number off from the top voice.

[juris]

How exciting! I play a late-period George Case patent concertina ca. 1874, the highest model, found in the Kingston, Ontario region which Case passed through at the time presumably promoting the concertina (and possibly his wife, but that's another story covered elsewhere). It's interesting that Regondi specifically refers to Case as friend. I guess when you're spending another Saturday night alone with a concertina these things can titillate you. I have seen some egregious errors in early Wheatstone engraved music so I still wonder about measure 7. Thanks very much for sharing. Juris

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

Carry on with your transcription I say; it is a complicated business, all those notes to check!

It' s like proof reading manuscript for a novel.. every word is read through to check for inconsistencies.

The writing of the tune is only the first step in a continuing process, and at least now, it is at the least made a little easier by way of software and computer. Regondi, I am sure, would be delighted with your commitment too.

[RatFace]

This looks fun! Unfortunately for me, my concertina is away getting serviced at the moment, but I shall look forward to giving these a try when it's back.

 

Regarding the versions/fingering:

 

I'd be inclined to make the edition reflect the version you would want to play, or hear played. A couple of notes per piece indicating significant changes might be nice, but not essential. Having said that, I know it can be tricky - quite often in these pieces there are little phrases which appear multiple times, but are slightly different. Really hard to know if those differences are due to error, or a genuine attempt to change "tone", or merely an attempt to introduce variations.

 

Some fingerings can be helpful. In practice, most likely the editions of this music will be primarily "sight read", and the occasional fingering can help. In addition, it can indicate some phrasing - e.g. in the Theme Varie piece  I arranged recently, the last section can be played in two ways: with full length "top notes", or shortened. I decided to go for the latter (mainly because I couldn't play it up to speed with full length notes, but don't tell anyone!), which determined the fingering. I decided then to include the fingering that supported this, because it would dissuade most people from attempting to attempt the "hard version". If someone wanted/was able to play it a different way, they'd find their own fingering and make their own marks anyway.

[Neil Thornock]

Juris, what a cool history behind your instrument. You remind me that I need to include the dedications on these scores. In case you're curious, here's a performance of this waltz on accordion. 

 

[Neil Thornock]

Thank you all for the encouragement! Good call on the fingering Danny, as an organist I should have thought about that. (I'm often playing hymns in church with a nonlegato touch because I can't be bothered to finger it properly.) As a (practically) non-concertinist it didn't occur to me. Really this project will have to wait for its final polish once I've got my hands on a full-sized, hopefully decent instrument. But I'll carry on anyway, especially while I have a bit of time at my disposal.