Concertina For Sale

[andy20]

lachenal built1860.35button serial no4138 for sale on e bay

item no [#16218]

not a scam

think this might be the listing no 7324628581 :

Edited May 20, 2005 by andy20

[JimLucas]

lachenal built1860.34 button for sale on e bay

item no [#16218]

not a scam

think this might be the listing no 7324628581 :

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Maybe not a scam, but very inaccurate.

 

That listing is not an English, but a Crane duet.

I count 35 buttons, not 34, and that's the fewest-button standard model for the Crane.

It definitely doesn't date to 1860, since the Crane duet wasn't invented until much later (patent 1896).

If that #16218 is suposed to be a serial number, it's way too high. Too many digits. At Lachenal, the anglo, English, and duets had separate runs of serial numbers, and the duets never reached 6000. If the real serial number is 16xx, then I guess it would be from around 1900.

 

If that's your listing, I suggest you correct it. Then good luck on the sale.

[Paul Read]

and don't forget the contribution to c.net

[andy20]

lachenal built1860.34 button for sale on e bay

item no [#16218]

not a scam

think this might be the listing no 7324628581 :

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe not a scam, but very inaccurate.

 

That listing is not an English, but a Crane duet.

I count 35 buttons, not 34, and that's the fewest-button standard model for the Crane.

It definitely doesn't date to 1860, since the Crane duet wasn't invented until much later (patent 1896).

If that #16218 is suposed to be a serial number, it's way too high. Too many digits. At Lachenal, the anglo, English, and duets had separate runs of serial numbers, and the duets never reached 6000. If the real serial number is 16xx, then I guess it would be from around 1900.

 

If that's your listing, I suggest you correct it. Then good luck on the sale.

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[andy20]

thanks Jim ,ok its a bit early for counting think i've made it right

it is 35 button and the serial no is 4138.does that match up?

Edited May 20, 2005 by andy20

[JimLucas]

thanks Jim ,ok its a bit early for counting think i've made it right

it is 35 button and the serial no is 4138.does that match up?

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The title on your eBay auction still says "english". May as well call it a banjo. A Crane duet is very different from an "English concertina".

 

I think that serial no. would put it sometime after 1920.

[Stephen Chambers]

The title on your eBay auction still says "english".  May as well call it a banjo.    A Crane duet is very different from an "English concertina".

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Ironically, whilst that is undoubtedly correct to describe the instrument today, especially if you want buyers to find it on eBay, John Butterworth, the inventor of the system, actually described his Patent (British Patent No. 21,730 of 1896) as being for "Improvements in English Concertinas", and Crane's Tutor, by H. Wilton-Bulstrode, is titled "Crane's Patent English Combination Concertina Tutor".

 

Confused ?

[JimLucas]

Ironically, ... John Butterworth, the inventor of the system, actually described his Patent (British Patent No. 21,730 of 1896) as being for "Improvements in English Concertinas", and Crane's Tutor, by H. Wilton-Bulstrode,  is titled "Crane's Patent English Combination Concertina Tutor".

 

Confused ?     

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Not at all. Some of the English we use today can be as different from Butterworth's English as it is from German. E.g., long before Chrysler/Dodge started making "minivans", there was a similar automobile called (at least in America) the Volkswagen "bus". But today it would be considered deceptive to describe a Dodge minivan as a "Dodge bus", which would be a very different vehicle.

[Stephen Chambers]

Some of the English we use today can be as different from Butterworth's English as it is from German.  E.g., long before Chrysler/Dodge started making "minivans", there was a similar automobile called (at least in America) the Volkswagen "bus".  But today it would be considered deceptive to describe a Dodge minivan as a "Dodge bus", which would be a very different vehicle.

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Though what you would call in America a "van", or "minivan", in Britain or Ireland would be called a "minibus", whilst a "minivan" was the van version of the old Austin Mini !

 

How did we get on to that ?

[Stephen Chambers]

Andy,

 

You may be getting confused by the way that Lachenal's stamped "English Make" into the rails (handles) of all their Anglo and duet concertnas. They did it to show that these were not cheap imitations of English-made concertinas, which were being produced in large numbers in Germany. However, that does not make those instruments "English concertinas", which are a different fingering system altogether (and do not have these rails).

 

The instrument you are selling is a "Crane duet" concertina, something much rarer than an English concertina, and much more desireable to the right person. The system was not invented until 1896, and your instrument was not made until the 1920's, but in the eyes of a player this makes it more desireable than having been made in 1860, as you state.

 

I would suggest that you will do better with your auction if you revise the description to reflect this.