Concertina I.D.

[Seán Ó Fearghail]

Would anyone like to have a guess as to who made this concertina? 
It is stamped J. Booth all over but I think he might have been a dealer…. 
 

[Seán Ó Fearghail]

[Seán Ó Fearghail]

[Stephen Chambers]

John Crabb/Charles Jeffries

[Seán Ó Fearghail]

6 minutes ago, Stephen Chambers said:

John Crabb/Charles Jeffries

But which one…. 😂 the underside of a few reeds…. 

[Seán Ó Fearghail]

[Stephen Chambers]

8 minutes ago, Seán Ó Fearghail said:

But which one…. 😂

 

Well, if they're not stamped C. Jeffries, Maker, I'd describe them as "John Crabb" - but he probably made them all anyway...

 

[Seán Ó Fearghail]

7 minutes ago, Stephen Chambers said:

 

Well, if they're not stamped C. Jeffries, Maker, I'd describe them as "John Crabb" - but he probably made them all anyway...

 

Thanks Stephen. 🙏🏻

[Stephen Chambers]

It seems J. Booth, 11, Churchgate, Bolton, put his name on cheap German concertinas too: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/anglo-concertina-made-booth-488011224 

 

Whilst Booth's Music ("specialists in music since 1832") are still trading, at 17, Churchgate.

[bazza]

I have the same model with no stamp, I was given the same info that Stephen said. they have a lovely tone . Mine was tuned B F#

Edited January 20, 2022 by bazza

[Seán Ó Fearghail]

2 hours ago, bazza said:

I have the same model with no stamp, I was given the same info that Stephen said. they have a lovely tone . Mine was tuned B F#

This was also originally tuned to B f sharp. 

[Jody Kruskal]

Oh my! I lust after a B/F#.............

 

[Geoffrey Crabb]

As I have, amongst the plethora of old Crabb concertina stuff, the original metal template from which this fretwork design was copied and applied to the instruments prior to piercing, I believe that the tina is an early one, late 1860's early 1870's, by my great grandfather John Crabb 1826-1903. 

The B/F# was the most popular for many years as seen from the Sept.1889 - Dec.1891, period of the available sales/production records.

Of the 114 Anglo concertinas made in the Crabb workshop during that period:

26 were C/G,

21 were Bb/F,

66 were B/F#,

and 1 was G/D, (The earliest recorded Crabb G/D, a 32 button, metal top, 08/11/1889).,   

 

B natural was also a known requested core key for some Crane duets up to the 1930's.

 

I'll leave others to speculate why B/F# was so popular.

 

Geoff

 

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Geoffrey Crabb
Numbers quoted corrected after re-inspection of records.

[Seán Ó Fearghail]

23 hours ago, Geoffrey Crabb said:

As I have, amongst the plethora of old Crabb concertina stuff, the original metal template from which this fretwork design was copied and applied to the instruments prior to piercing, I believe that the tina is an early one, late 1860's early 1870's, by my great grandfather John Crabb 1826-1903. 

The B/F# was the most popular for many years as seen from the Sept.1889 - Dec.1891, period of the available sales/production records.

Of the 114 Anglo concertinas made in the Crabb workshop during that period:

21 were C/G,

17 were Bb/F

75 were B/F#,

and 1 was G/D, (The earliest recorded Crabb G/D, a 32 button, metal top, 08/11/1889).,   

 

B natural was also a known requested core key for some Crane duets up to the 1930's.

 

I'll leave others to speculate why B/F# was so popular.

 

Geoff

 

 

Wow! that is interesting! Thank you so much for the info Geoff. I wonder why that key was so popular? Anyone have an idea? I'm way too far out of my comfort zone to speculate. 

[Stephen Chambers]

1 hour ago, Seán Ó Fearghail said:

I wonder why that key was so popular? Anyone have an idea? I'm way too far out of my comfort zone to speculate. 

 

My own theory on that subject revolves around the most common pitch in England at the time being a high pitch that was half-a-semitone sharp of our A-440, whilst many German concertinas were in a flat pitch that was half-a-semitone lower - so an English-made Anglo in B/F# could play with a German C/G...

 

But it's only a theory.

[Robin Harrison]

Quote

 

Of the 114 Anglo concertinas made in the Crabb workshop during that period:

21 were C/G,

17 were Bb/F

75 were B/F#,

 

that is interesting,Geoff.........any indication as to number of buttons/keys the anglos were ?

[Paul Groff]

3 hours ago, Stephen Chambers said:

 

My own theory on that subject revolves around the most common pitch in England at the time being a high pitch that was half-a-semitone sharp of our A-440, whilst many German concertinas were in a flat pitch that was half-a-semitone lower - so an English-made Anglo in B/F# could play with a German C/G...

 

But it's only a theory.

I agree with this as a very likely explanation.

 

Not in contradiction of this, but to build on it, we can consider a corollary of producing anglos in London in the B/F# keys in the late 19th century. By that time there were tuners well distributed through the country though production of the instruments was more centralized. Stamps and markings inside the instruments give evidence of those many and widespread tuners. 

 

I think it's likely that many of the B/F# anglos were retuned up or down, i.e. to Bb/F or to C/G in one of the various English pitches. I have more than once seen evidence of this, even though the BF# anglos may have been stamped as if in CG. One example was a Crabb 31 key that was all tuned to BbF (high pitch) except for the left hand thumb button that was tuned to B/B.  The re-tuner must have missed that one!

 

So a B/F# box might not only have played well with german C/G imports, but also have been a versatile starting point if exported to Liverpool (etc) where it could have been repitched locally to suit the needs of players there.

 

PG

 

 

 

[malcolm clapp]

My thoughts along the same lines, Paul.

It would be interesting to hear Geoffrey Crabb's view on this theory....