A Good Jeffries/a Great Jeffries?

[richard]

Hello Folks

 

I am interested in hearing from people who have had the opportunity to experience playing a variety of Jeffries, (and/or Wheatstone Anglo concertinas) and wouldn't mind sharing their perceptions and thoughts on what distinguishes a good Jeffries and/or Wheatstone Anglo from a great one. I am interested hearing what people feel are the technical, mechanical, aural and other less quantifiable qualities between two instruments of the same highly esteemed manufacturer. Does the difference have to do with the particular model, period of manufacture, quality (or lack of) of maintenance and service work?

 

Thanks,

 

Richard

Edited May 9, 2005 by richard

[Stephen Chambers]

Does the difference have to do with the particular model, period of manufacture, quality (or lack of) of maintenance and service work?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes.

[Chris Timson]

Now, Stephen, don't burden the chap with too much information!

 

Chris

[bigsqueezergeezer]

I would hazzard a guess that the majority of Jeffries owners (including me) are just grateful that they are lucky enough to own one.

 

Derek

Edited May 9, 2005 by bigsqueezergeezer

[Greg Jowaisas]

At the 2004 Noel Hill Midwest camp there were 3 Jeffries C/G concertinas. All were definite "sound" cousins. They all had a "Jeffries' joyfull sound" but none had a pronounced "honk" that I associate with the more impertinent side of the Jeffries family. All three were nice, but slightly different sounding concertinas.

 

One of the four Dippers present could produce a "honk" that reminded me of Jeffries. One of the four Dippers (a different one) had, what I consider, just about the ideal sound.

 

There was a Lachenal set up by Paul Groff that I still consider one of the best sounding concertinas that I have ever heard.

 

Noel Hill spent 20 minutes of his lunch time playing each of three different Carroll concertinas. He'd go back to his Linota, then pick up the Carrolls again. Each of the Carrolls was a tiny bit different. All were obviously Linota inspired and seemed to be holding their own with Noel's.

 

The sound of Bernadette's Tedrow impressed me.

 

Any one of those concertinas was to die for and they all sounded different.

 

Go figure.

 

Greg

[Chris Timson]

Any one of those concertinas was to die for and they all sounded different.

 

Go figure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It seems to me that somewhere amongst that mass of tongues and shoes, levers, fretwork, leather and wood concertinas also have souls. It's the soul of the concertina that is responsible for its distinctive sound. That's why each concertina sounds different, I am convinced of it.

 

Chris

[Henk van Aalten]

It seems to me that somewhere amongst that mass of tongues and shoes, levers, fretwork, leather and wood concertinas also have souls. It's the soul of the concertina that is responsible for its distinctive sound. That's why each concertina sounds different, I am convinced of it.

 

Chris

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Chris

 

I agree with you that a concertina is more than a collection of metal, wooden and leather parts. As for the soul: I think that there is almost no "soul" when the concertina's "roll off the assembly line".

IMHO the soul is for a big part developed during the first years as a result of the interaction between the player and the concertina.

[richard]

Hi Greg

 

Thanks for your input. I appreciate hearing your descriptions. Would mind describing more of what you are hearing when you talk about that "honk" you hear and feel is the ideal in a Jeffries. Maybe you (and anyone else) have a particular recording and track that you could mention that expresses that "ideal". How about recordings that you feel have the "joyful sound" but not the "honk", as well? I really want to understand what folks are describing.

 

Also I'm curious if the Dipper you mentioned, that had that "honk", was a particular model, or had qualities that set it apart from the other Dippers.

 

I really enjoy when Noel plays a variety of good instruments and hearing them in contrast to one another. I treasure the little sound clip I have of him playing mine.

 

Thanks a lot,

 

Richard

Edited May 9, 2005 by richard

[Alan Day]

I must admit that I have never played a bad Jeffries.I think that some may not be in good working order, that would make a difference.I have never liked the small diameter buttons (about .125 diameter) that I have played,they hurt my finger tips after about ten minutes playing and give deep bruises, apart from that I just have enjoyed playing every one.Stephen however has played many more than me, so I have to go along with his thoughtful reply.

Al

[Greg Jowaisas]

Hi Richard,

 

To me, the sound of Gearoid O hallmhurain's Bb Jeffries on his album "Traditional Music from Clare and Beyond" is hard to beat.

 

As with Noel Hill playing lots of differnet instruments at a camp, the sounds that Gearoid gets out of his instrument is no doubt a wonderful synergy of his talent and the instrument's potential sound.

 

Perhaps the 3 Jeffries I heard and played at the 2004 camp all had the potential for that gurgling, chortling honk that Gearoid evokes from his concertina.

 

With that thought, I'd better humbly get back to practicing.

 

Regards,

 

Greg

[Stephen Chambers]

Al,

 

The biggest problem I have found with Jeffries would relate to their popularity over the last 130-odd years, in that they seem more likely to have been repitched (sometimes several times) than any other make of Anglo. By the time it has been converted from C/G to Bb/F, and back to C/G again, then from high to concert pitch, the reeds are starting to get a bit thin.

 

I know what you mean about those buttons like knitting needles though ...

[Bruce McCaskey]

I recently had an email exchange with a well known North American concertina maker (I'll leave it to him to decide if he wants to go on public record) in which he expressed the belief that how a new concertina is played during its break-in period greatly affects the tonal quality it will have for the rest of it's useful life.

 

The gist of it was that he felt that a concertina played hard and harshly during its first several months (even the first couple of years) of use would never develop the most appealing tonal qualities of one played softly and more gently during the same period. Perhaps this has been a factor with the instruments by the old makers as well?

 

I have a Dipper County Clare as does a local friend. We both acquired them as used instruments (they're only a few years old though) and the serial numbers are only three digits apart, but you can hear a difference in the sound of their reeds. I can't contrast their break-in treatment or overall usage, but I'm pretty confident they both started out sounding the same.

[ceemonster]

so far as jeffries go, the good versus great question can involve button action, but usually involves tone quality, which means reed quality. jeffries reeds are famous for delivering a singular resonant, honky tone. but not all jeffires boxes have this. you do find jeffries boxes that sound quiet and muted. you do find others that sound out with a resonant, bright "honk." which if either of these means "great" has a subjective component, though a respected concertina restorer/maker in the UK once advised me against investing in a "C.Jeffries" (earlier, probably crabb-built) instrument on grounds that these were more muted and less full-toned than what he called the "crackers" dating from the first part of the "Charles Jeffries" era. other, folks, however, adore this quieter sound.

 

another key factor in analysing jeffries quality is this----are the reeds original? if not all are original (understandable in a century-ish-old intrument), what percent are original jeffries reeds? most frustratingly, how is a US buyer to ascertain this? true jeffries reeds have a unique metal composition that gives them a unique sound. i came close to purchasing a so-called jeffries concertina from a UK music store, only to have a pre-ship checkup by an outside technician reveal that 2/3 of the reeds in this so-called jeffries were replaced reeds that were lachenal or lachenal-equivalent quality. with the exchange rate factored in, this box was going to cost about 7 grand american. transaction rescinded.

 

which brings me to the wackiest aspect of the whole jeffries greatness question. these instruments are now fetching six to eight grand in the current market. stipulating for the sake of discussion that a jeffries in good condition is worth this price----why would anyone fork over that kind of dough without written certification from a known dealer, or vetting from a known restorer? and people are doing it all the time, with no clue as to what is inside the box. even the three-grand, four-grand, five, grand, etc., sums people are shelling out for uncertified, unevaluated non-jeffries vintageconcertinas on ebay are unbelievable to me. i don't get it. this is simply unheard of in other high-end instrument markets. nobody in their right mind pays eight grand for a violin without certification or a written checkup. what is the deal with concertinas? for the time being, i've abandoned the search for a jeffries, not because i don't think the great ones are great, but because i've lost faith in the possibility of locating & purchasing one that has reliable documentation as to reeds, etc---and in those price ranges, i'm not forking out a dime without that certification. there are certainly reputable, on-the-record dealers out there, but they are getting fewer and fewer jeffries these days. many of the sales that do go down, go down uncertified on little more than a handshake, based only on the make of the instrument. ridiculous, scary, and not for this jeffries lover.

[Chris Timson]

and people are doing it all the time, with no clue as to what is inside the box. even the three-grand, four-grand, five, grand, etc.,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. Personally I wouldn't require documtenation, but I would need to handle it and play it and open it up and have a shufty inside. My present beauty Chris Algar sent me on approval for a couple of days, which enabled me to satisfy myself about what I was getting. I cannot understand how anybody can part with substantial sums for sight-unseen instruments.

 

Chris

[geoffwright]

Why do we want a Jeffries? For the insides or the outside?

We want one to play/listen to, not look at !.

[Ken_Coles]

and people are doing it all the time, with no clue as to what is inside the box. even the three-grand, four-grand, five, grand, etc.,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. Personally I wouldn't require documtenation, but I would need to handle it and play it and open it up and have a shufty inside. My present beauty Chris Algar sent me on approval for a couple of days, which enabled me to satisfy myself about what I was getting. I cannot understand how anybody can part with substantial sums for sight-unseen instruments.

 

Chris

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Amen to what both of you say. I enjoy playing a Jeffries when someone allows me to, but at these prices I do not expect to ever own one. There are alternatives (you'll pay less for a new Suttner or Dipper, and other makers are appearing). If I had 7,000 U.S. to spend on something, I'd be more likely to travel overseas for several months than buy another concertina. Hmmm...maybe I don't belong in this august group with an attitude like that!

 

Ken

[Chris Timson]

Why do we want a Jeffries? For the insides or the outside?

We want one to play/listen to, not look at !.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are we, do you think, talking at cross purposes? I want to check a concertina I am buying not for appearance but for condition, damage and, yes, sound and playability.

 

(Having said that, one of the reasons I like my Dipper so much is that it looks amazing. If you're paying in excess of 3000 quid for an instrument, it is at least not unreasonable to hope that it will look the part!).

 

Chris

[ceemonster]

[Why do we want a Jeffries? For the insides or the outside?

We want one to play/listen to, not look at !.]

 

i agree, though, like chris, i'd say that at those prices, aesthetic beauty is lovely if you can get it. but, indeed---bottom line is the playing and the sound. the rub is that with a concertina, the quality of the playability/listenability depends on what is hidden inside. i personally agree that a good jeffries probably is indeed worth the dough, but in this price range, i would need a dependable evaluation of the inside, or i'd have to pass on the purchase. a violin doesn't have a hidden interior mechanism. with a concertina, it is that hidden stuff that determines the sound, and therefore the value. many of you concertina aces are cognisant enough to "have a shufty" yourselves, and good on ya! i was lucky enough to nab a few-years-old dipper county clare, and i own a lovely new "hybrid" concertina. with both, i knew exactly what i was getting for the dollar. and both were worth every dollar!!! somebody mentioned gearoid's b-flat/f jeffries box. i heard him play it recently, and to me it's the "grail" of how a concertina should sound, for irish dance music, at least. but this whole issue of locating one and then having it properly checked out is a little iffy and risky for my money.