Air Button

[harpomatic]

Amigos,

after I got my bandoneon (love it), I still love my concertina, but the air button seems to be too slow, by comparison. Large air hole on bandoneon seems to do what it was intended to do better- quick air release. I still wonder why it is located on one side only, wouldn't it be better to have two, on both sides, and in case of concertina, wouldn't it be better to have a much larger air hole?

What is the logic behind such design in anglos, seemingly performing at half its potential (too slow)?

Misha

[Bob Tedrow]

Speaking from experience with Anglo concertina players from my 2003 and 2005 Concertina Tour, there is no clear consensus on what players expect from an air button.

 

I make two styles, due to my desperate need to please as many as possible.

 

One style has an aperture twice the diameter of a standard tone hole and with a generous vent. It releases air *very quickly*. This is what I prefer and seems to be the favorite of most.

 

I have had a few comments from players who feel, initially anyway, that they cannot control the rapid movement of air of this style.

 

 

I build an instrument with a smaller hole as well.

 

There are players who, out of habit or stylistic choice, use the air button in a different manner, they "ride the clutch" or bleed air to gain or loose a little air during a phrase. They do not want a gulp of air.

 

(I think that is from a history of playing a leaky concertina or one with a slow air button.)

 

The larger style can be used delicately, for a big or small breathe. The small style has less versatility.

 

 

 

I have had requests for air holes on both sides.

 

Bob

 

 

.

[Richard Morse]

Amigos, after I got my bandoneon (love it), I still love my concertina, but the air button seems to be too slow, by comparison. Large air hole on bandoneon seems to do what it was intended to do better- quick air release....

What is the logic behind such design in anglos, seemingly performing at half its potential (too slow)?

That's because people play anglos differently from bandoneons. The smaller anglo air valve was designed to be operated while playing. Too large an air hole and all you do is gulp air - and have a very hard time controling the tune while you were at it (though with practice most anything can be accomplished/overcome?).

 

Bandoneon players tend to play only on the pull - rarely (if ever!) on the push. When they get out to the end of their bellows they really, really, really need to dump all that air to get the bellows closed to be able to continue playing. You need a huge air hole for that. Come to think of it, I've heard bandoneon air valves most often called "air dumps".

 

Both anglos and bandoneons have logical air valves - for how most of the people play those instruments.

[harpomatic]

Comrades, I agree with both of your points that smaller hole seems to be "designed to be operated while playing", as Richard says. Part of my question was about hearing this explained/confirmed, and gave me a good tip to play with the button, like "riding a cluthch" more often. However, I still relate to an air button as an emergency tool. To me, ideally both anglo and bandoneon should be used both on pull & push, adequately and require as litlle air venting as possible. Bandoneons, like 40 button anglos are especially suited for that, since many notes are awailable both ways. It is ironic(but true indeed) that most bandoneonists play it mainly on the push. My logic is different, in the way that I do not want to develope a bias in my relationship to instrument's potential. As a consequence, I treat air button as an "air dump" , because in real(not theoretical) situations, you do need it. For articulation, like Bob says, you can use a large hole lightly, I do it on bandoneon, while playing.

Just thinking of a perfect design for myself, and experiencing both "relatives" of the concertina family, I'd go with a larger hole. Precicely because it is designed to, both, " to be operated while playing" and for "dumping". I like to have choices. Further, I'd like to have air button on both sides, to further eliminate left/right hand bias. To me, the beauty of concertina family is abot this ALMOST equal hand possibilities. Which leads me to ask this question: why not same layout on both sides for anglo? It would then be a perfect "bias-free" instrument. Kind-of "duet"

anglo to the max.

Thank you for your replies, they help me to understand how to modify my existing anglo, which I love, and will love even more, once I do air button modifications.

Misha.

[Boney]

I'd like to try an air button for the Anglo that opened gradually. If the pad "rolled off" the hole, or slid back or something, so you could open it just a crack by depressing the air button slightly. You could unobtrusively get a small amount of air while playing by just "goosing" the button. And there wouldn't be the big "hiccup" that happens when a note is sounding while you quickly release the button -- the vent hole wouldn't slam closed all at once.

[JimLucas]

I'd like to try an air button for the Anglo that opened gradually.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Since others are asking why not two air buttons, what about having one with a big hole for "gasping" (Gaspé Reel, anyone? ) and one with a small hole, for "riding the clutch"?

 

(For that matter, why not several air buttons, strategically placed so that at least one is easy to reach, no matter what other buttons you're pressing? I personally find thumb buttons to be very awkward to use, maybe because my thumbs aren't the same length/shape as what the buttons were designed for?)

[harpomatic]

Before having anything to compare it to, my air button on anglo was fine as it was

But after getting a bandoneon, I surely appreciate its design of the "air valve" more. Its larger lever is placed so that it is easy to reach from almost any playing position, and there is no need for special design to "ride the clutch" - you can do that by pressing lightly, as opposed to "all the way". Having an air button on the left would be cool for times when your right hand is busy, or a doubled air venting, if you use both at once (thus, may be no need for a larger hole).

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd like to try an air button for the Anglo that opened gradually.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Since others are asking why not two air buttons, what about having one with a big hole for "gasping" (Gaspé Reel, anyone? ) and one with a small hole, for "riding the clutch"?

 

(For that matter, why not several air buttons, strategically placed so that at least one is easy to reach, no matter what other buttons you're pressing? I personally find thumb buttons to be very awkward to use, maybe because my thumbs aren't the same length/shape as what the buttons were designed for?)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Frank Edgley]

The air button shouldn't be an "on/off" switch. It should be capable of releasing adequate amounts of air and also by pressing it less than fully down should be able to "bleed" off smaller amounts of air. Some of this comes with practice, but the air button of the instrument should be set up to be played that way. The position of the fulcrum can contribute to the way the air button operates.

[Boney]

The air button shouldn't be an "on/off" switch. It should be capable of releasing adequate amounts of air and also by pressing it less than fully down should be able to "bleed" off smaller amounts of air. Some of this comes with practice, but the air button of the instrument should be set up to be played that way. The position of the fulcrum can contribute to the way the air button operates.

I have noticed that some seem to open with a bit of gradualness, while some seem to pop open and slam shut almost instantly. I like the first kind much bettter. But I'd like to try one that was very gradual (although pushing it full open quickly would still be very fast). Especially when I'm playing with the hand doing the venting, it's difficult to be delicate.

[Geoffrey Crabb]

Gentleman,

to overcome the difficulties, experienced by some, associated with the 'wind' button on Anglo concertinas, my latest instrument has a lever* instead of the button. Although this is made to look like a button to maintain 'traditional' appearance, operation is effected by the thumb moving the lever/button sideways towards the palm of the hand.

The benefits of this are, I believe, a more natural movement of the thumb and hence a much finer control over the amount of air through the 0.75 inch diameter wind pallet hole thus meeting all requirements between gentle 'bleed' and massive air 'dump'.

Although, initially, operation of the lever may be strange to the established player, I have every confidence that this inclusion will be acceptable.

 

* I make no claim to the original use of an Anglo wind lever or that the idea is new or novel however I have used it before with a corresponding locking 'drone' lever on instruments made when with the family firm.

 

Geoff Crabb

[Robin Harrison]

On my anglo that is being made , I had thought to ask for two air (wind) keys . As I don't use a drone , the left key would duplicate the right.Thus when I want to have a moderate amount of air, I could use one key. When I need to "gulp " a larger amount I could use both.As I play for Morris,there are some tunes that when played with 4 or 5 keys depressed, you just plain need a big gulp.

I 'll let you know what transpires. Robin

[geoffwright]

I would have thought that if two air buttons were available, a small hole and a larger one would be a good idea for "fine" or "heavy" release of air.

I have a Wheatstone English with a lever "bellows closer" as previously described which, being an anglo player, I find most useful. (Especially when swapping boxes mid-tune)

[Paul Groff]

Robin,

 

Have you considered (if it is not too late) asking to have the chamber corresponding to the left hand thumb button configured with slots in the reedpan that could accommodate reeds? If the reeds are left out and valves left off this could give you a "pretty good" vent key on the left, but if you changed your mind and went with notes for that LH thumb key it would then be an easy matter to slot in reeds and add valves at a later date, with no woodworking and maybe even without a need to send back to the maker. That "more typical" (I'm NOT saying better) layout also might perhaps be preferred by another owner 100 years from now...

 

Just an option to consider...

 

Paul

[Clive Thorne]

Just a few personal thoughts responding to some of the comments made.

 

POSITION:

 

Personally, I find the position of the air button on my anglo perfect. If I just pick the instrument up there it is, right under my thumb. Obviously I'm luck that the instrument just happens to fit my hand well, and I sympathise with people where this is not the case. I must say that some of the pictures of anglos I see (eg on E-bay) do make me think 'that air button is in an awkward place".

 

 

TWO AIR BUTTONS

 

Possibly related to the above comment, but personally as my right hand thumb air button lies so well under my thumb then I can't really see any advantage in having one on the left as well. What eevr I do with my right hand the thumb remains on the air button To me the left hand thumb button is better used for notes, whether a drone or ,as in my case, other notes.

 

 

LEVER RATHER THAN BUTTON

 

Sounds like a good idea to me, as others have said it might well make fine control easier. Lots of Hohner melodeons have a lever (left hand thumb) and I always found that easier to use than melodeons with an air push button air release.

 

 

PROGESSIVE ACTION.

 

Only just thought of this, but would an easy way to get progressive action would be to fit a cone to the inside of the air valve pad. Thus when you first open the pad the air would only flow through a small area annulus. This would increase in area as the valve was opened further, with the cone coming completely clear when fully pressed. The seal when shut would still be made by the ring of leather around the cone, so wouldn't be affected. Different cone angles would allow you to adjust the progressive response to your own taste, indeed it could be an exponential profile, or stepped, or what ever you wanted.

 

 

 

Just a few thoughts.

 

Clive.

[m3838]

Statements:

1. Lever is better ergonomically.

2. Air button/lever should be used gradually

3. There is no need for duplication of the mechanism.

 

Questions:

1. With two air buttons wouldn't it compromize control of the instrument?

2. Isn't Anglo designed to work on push/pull with air button assisting not in "dumping" the air, but "riding it"?

3. Weren't bandoneons designed with the same idea in theory, but practice rendered playing on push ineffective?

 

Observations:

1. My Hohner Club is a pull instrument. Very large air valve and a button made to use it gradually 'and' gulping. Not all the bass notes are available on the pull, one 'has' to play it on the push as well.

2. Bandoneons have no need to be played in the push/pull manner, therefore no need for quick push/pull reeds, light weight, short bellows.

3. Mexicans play on the pull and remove the bass reeds, making bass side very light and using bass butons as one large air valve.

4. Wathing Astor Piazzola playing revealed to me that he didn't "ride" the air valve, but used it as an "air dump". Very skilfully though, in the very last micro-seconds of a phraze he would un-gulp the air and continue playing on the pull. The effect was of a continuous smooth playing.

[Geoffrey Crabb]

Hi all,

on the current instrument I am building, a 40 Key Octagonal C/G Anglo, I have incorporated a two stage wind lever. The lever, primarily, opens a small pallet hole to allow a slight bleed of air as required by some. Further movement of the lever opens a much larger secondary pallet hole for rapid 'dumps' of air.

A levered drone (same note push/pull) that can be locked on as required has been fitted to the left hand side.

Slight repositioning of the levers will, hopefully, eliminate difficulties that were experienced by some used to a button rather than a lever.

I will report any advantage or disadavavtage from the above action when the instrument is completed and has been 'road tested' by others as I do not consider myself a player.

 

Geoff Crabb

Edited November 23, 2005 by Geoffrey Crabb