A simplified 26K layout

[Pistachio Dreamer]

Hi All,

 

As some are aware I've been busy producing an entry-level instrument (CSO) for the last 6 months, aided by a plucky £300 laser cutter and a very expedient bellows design. I'm finding the expanded 20K ranges are popular, and have come up with a simplified accidental row for the 26K. This was due to the limitations of the design; I wasn't able to place a button at the standard Bflat/Aflat position of the 30K.

 

I've made a short video here running through the notes: 

 

 

I find the layout to be quite "natural", in that coming from a 30K instrument I don't find it too difficult to adapt to the positions where altered. However, I should caveat that as I do regularly switch between Wheatstone/Jeffries layouts and happily play wrong notes. I also like the fact it is very regular in the way the standard accidental row is only almost. I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the layout, and if there are previous incarnations of which I should be aware.

 

Paul.

26+drone layout.pdf

[Chris Ghent]

Totally personal but I’d hate not to have the A/G reversal on the left end accidental row.  A lot depends on the canon you are making the instrument for. A learner Irish player would be better off for future playing with the A/G than the Bflat/Aflat.

[Pistachio Dreamer]

17 hours ago, Chris Ghent said:

Totally personal but I’d hate not to have the A/G reversal on the left end accidental row.  A lot depends on the canon you are making the instrument for. A learner Irish player would be better off for future playing with the A/G than the Bflat/Aflat.

Thanks for your insights, I was aware of the compromise with picking the more useful notes from two buttons for one. Personally I'd miss the a on the push more than the g on the pull, and would miss having Bb for g minor, but really interesting to hear a different opinion. I'd agree that Ab is dispensable. 

[Chris Ghent]

I suspect the transition from an incomplete (sorry, sounds pejorative, don’t mean to be, supportive of this project) learner instrument to a standard instrument would be easier if all of the buttons on the learner instrument had the same pitch values and positions as the equivalents on the more complete instrument. 

Is G minor a typical key for an entry level player? I found in my own playing using both A and G on that button made a huge difference to phrasing in my playing (including using the G in G minor) and I find encouraging students to use that G/A button early on is better than converting to that way of thinking later. As a teacher (of ITM) this would be a deal breaker for me. 
 

I have a laser cutter too, uphill learning curve! Struggle!

[Little John]

Sorry! Misread "dispensable" as "indispensable". Deleted content but can't remove post.

Edited March 14, 2021 by Little John
Carelessness!

[Pistachio Dreamer]

Thanks for your comments Chris, really useful to have your point of view as a teacher. Here's another idea for a layout based on keeping the reversed A/G. If Bb's are not essential, perhaps neither are Eb/D#s be also (ok apart from minor 6th in A minor maybe) so how about the elusive E on the pull on the left hand side instead, I wonder if this has ever been done?

 

The right hand side is 2/3s of a Jeffries layout at least, and I think going from this to a full 30 button wouldn't be as much of a jump as the previous layout. You very rightly point out that you want a tutor model to translate well to the full 30k when the student upgrades. Whilst I'm sure a player of a 20K upgrading to 30k also would relearn a good number of tunes to take advantage of the further possibilities, perhaps messing with the accidental row is a bridge too far!

26k-exp.pdf

[Chris Ghent]

I put an E in the same place on my own concertina a few years back but never did convert to using it. You couldn’t pull from D to E because it was the same finger but apart from that worked OK. 

 

I have found putting non-reversed notes (typically E/F and A#/G#)  from the left onto extra buttons on the RHS works well. Typically when your left hand is busy your right is not. And there is more real estate available on the right.  Every instrument I have made has had the low F# reversed on the second button RHS accidental row instead of one of the d#s, a Dipper mod.  Speaking of real estate, could you achieve another accidental note if you dropped the LHS drone?

[Pistachio Dreamer]

7 minutes ago, Chris Ghent said:

I put an E in the same place on my own concertina a few years back but never did convert to using it. You couldn’t pull from D to E because it was the same finger but apart from that worked OK. 

 

I have found putting non-reversed notes (typically E/F and A#/G#)  from the left onto extra buttons on the RHS works well. Typically when your left hand is busy your right is not. And there is more real estate available on the right.  Every instrument I have made has had the low F# reversed on the second button RHS accidental row instead of one of the d#s, a Dipper mod.  Speaking of real estate, could you achieve another accidental note if you dropped the LHS drone?

Thanks Chris, I see what you mean about having more on the RHS, it's the EC cross hand principal speeding you up. When you say "one of d#s" are you referring to the jeffries layout in particular for this?

 

I could certainly make the drone key accidentals instead, like a reversed E/F, good thought.

[Chris Ghent]

Yes, one of the RHS d#s in the Jeffries layout.  
 

My point about the drone was not that it could be converted to extra reversals but that the space it occupies on the reedpan (which I don’t really have a grip on as I have had little to do with hybrids) could be used instead to supply one more of the usual accidental row buttons. 

[Pistachio Dreamer]

On 3/16/2021 at 8:57 AM, Chris Ghent said:

Yes, one of the RHS d#s in the Jeffries layout.  
 

My point about the drone was not that it could be converted to extra reversals but that the space it occupies on the reedpan (which I don’t really have a grip on as I have had little to do with hybrids) could be used instead to supply one more of the usual accidental row buttons. 

Ah I see what you mean. For these instruments it's not so much the space on the reed pan that's an issue, but the routing of the action, and the fact I can't put a button in the inner Bb/Ab (LH) and C#/D# (RH) positions - it's too close to the sides. I am however redesigning this from scratch to overcome this problem, so watch the space.