looking for any bass concertina that goes down to F1 or lower.

[d.elliott]

I had had forgotten Bernard's  instrument, it is a long time since I played it, it was a chat after a gig at Worrall. So I did not gat a chance to look inside it. I have put a meter on this clip and the lowest note is F1, albeit somewhat sharp.

 

Dave 

[Don Taylor]

I vaguely remember hearing on a Mike Harding podcast that Bernard found his bass concertina at a Salvation Army selling off sale, and that he got Mike to go and buy one as well.  It might be worth contacting Mike to see if he actually bought a bass like Bernard's and if he still has it.  Mike does not mention playing an EC at all, so he might be willing to sell it.

 

https://www.mikeharding.co.uk/

[Roger Hare]

11 hours ago, Don Taylor said:

I vaguely remember hearing on a Mike Harding podcast that Bernard found his bass concertina at a Salvation Army selling off sale, and that he got Mike to go and buy one as well.  It might be worth contacting Mike to see if he actually bought a bass like Bernard's and if he still has it.  Mike does not mention playing an EC at all, so he might be willing to sell it.

 

https://www.mikeharding.co.uk/

I have a vague memory of somewhere seeing (~2 years ago?) a bass concertina offered for sale by one M. Harding.

Unfortunately, I really can't remember where I saw this (it may have been on c.net), but I remember wondering at the time if this was the man his'self. Maybe he already got rid?
 

[alex_holden]

1 hour ago, lachenal74693 said:

I have a vague memory of somewhere seeing (~2 years ago?) a bass concertina offered for sale by one M. Harding.

Unfortunately, I really can't remember where I saw this (it may have been on c.net), but I remember wondering at the time if this was the man his'self. Maybe he already got rid?

 

He advertised a Jeffries anglo on here about a year ago. I'm pretty sure he had a bass at some point but who knows what happened to it, maybe he sold it decades ago.

[LesJessop]

I have an ex- Salvation Army treble Lachenal EC, it is a B-flat instrument (i.e. the buttons all sound one tone lower than on a 'regular'). I bought it from a Northumbrian Piper about 30 years ago: he had acquired a suite of several EC including a bass [a big regret in my life, I didn't buy the bass !!]. So, if the bass was also a B-flat instrument, it would sound F when you press the G button ... which means you wouldn't have to replace the G-sharp with F reeds, but you would need to transpose every note up when playing in a concert-pitch session.  

 

[SteveS]

5 hours ago, LesJessop said:

I have an ex- Salvation Army treble Lachenal EC, it is a B-flat instrument (i.e. the buttons all sound one tone lower than on a 'regular'). I bought it from a Northumbrian Piper about 30 years ago: he had acquired a suite of several EC including a bass [a big regret in my life, I didn't buy the bass !!].

 

When I was a student in Leicester (1977-1980) I had the chance to buy a bass concertina I'd seen in a junk shop.  I'd been playing concertina maybe 6 months by then and I didn't really appreciate the rarity of the bass.  My regret is that I didn't buy it.  I should have lived on beans for a couple of months and have given up the beer for the duration thinking back.

Edited February 21, 2021 by SteveS

[Bassconcertina.net]

Do you think any F basses will appear again ever.

[alex_holden]

I would be willing to consider building a new one (subject to the waiting list naturally).

[Don Taylor]

Wim Wakker says that he will build a bass in his Parnassus line:

 

http://www.wakker-concertinas.com/parnassus.htm

 

A little pricey, though...

[Little John]

47 minutes ago, Don Taylor said:

Wim Wakker says that he will build a bass in his Parnassus line:

 

He also offers a single action bass http://www.wakker-concertinas.com/B51.htm

 

Lowest note is C2 though.

[Bassconcertina.net]

1 hour ago, Don Taylor said:

Wim Wakker says that he will build a bass in his Parnassus line:

 

http://www.wakker-concertinas.com/parnassus.htm

 

A little pricey, though...

What would the range be?

[Don Taylor]

1 hour ago, Bassconcertina.net said:

What would the range be?

I don't know, you would have to ask Wim, but if you don't have well north of US$10k to spend then it would be rather academic.

[Bassconcertina.net]

3 hours ago, Don Taylor said:

I don't know, you would have to ask Wim, but if you don't have well north of US$10k to spend then it would be rather academic.

I wander if he takes custom orders

[alex_holden]

On 2/14/2021 at 9:53 AM, d.elliott said:

The lowest note on the Bass clef is G, to be more precise G2 (just under 98Hz). The G bass is the lowest instrument of the range of English Concertinas, two octaves bellow the treble instrument. As with all English systems it is possible to tune the G# down to the F natural below, although on big reed instruments this is not always successful. This down tune would be to F2 (87.3hz), you would need a full octave lower to get to F1. (43.65hz).

 

I have heard of contrabass concertinas but never seen one, just bigger Bass concertinas yielding more power and improved tone. There are two ranges of Bass concertina, the C Bass which only goes as far down as the low 'C' on the Left hand side, and the 'G' Bass which goes down to the full two octave compass below the treble. Some people seem to refer to the 'G' bass as a contrabass. Given the size of the 'G' reed and the amount of air to power it, I doubt that anything over an octave lower than the 'G' bass would be practicable. You are into Harmonium ranges at F1. Bass instruments are more usually single action to reduce weight and eliminate valve issues, they are often less than 48 keys to ensure  that the size remains manageable. I shudder to think what the weight of an instrument going down to F1 would be.  I hope I am wrong, or you have your octave numbers mixed up, but I do doubt if you are going to successful.

 

Hi Dave, I was just thinking about this comment.

A treble English goes down to the G below middle C (C4), i.e. G3.

A tenor goes down to C3.

A baritone goes down to G2, one octave below a treble.

Presumably a C-bass goes down to C2.

Presumably a G-bass (contrabass?) goes down to G1, two octaves below a treble.

 

Therefore F1 is only two semitones down from the bottom note in a G-bass, not an octave and a bit.

 

P.S. it seems that typically the bottom note in a bass Anglo is also G1 or thereabouts (one octave down from a standard G/D, which goes down to G2). I suppose an F/C bass anglo would go down to F1.

Edited February 23, 2021 by alex_holden
Anglo comparison

[d.elliott]

Having listened to Bernard's video clip again, it did not seem any lower than my own 'G' Bass concertina.

 

I just got my G Bass out and put up against my main tuning meter, and to my surprise my Bass goes down around 49 Hz on its low G, which is read at 'G1' the down tuned low 'G#' to F Nat is 43.7Hz or 'F1'. I need to eat my Hat. Further reading clearly stated the Octave C0 is call 'Sub-Contra', 'C1'  Octave is called 'Contra'. So the 'G' Bass must be what is thought of as a 'Contra Bass'. The 'C Bass' starts at C2 which is above the contra octave. The naming convention is as below:

 

Octave Names
C0 - B0: sub-contra octave (A0 is the lowest pitch on a full piano)
C1 - B1: contra octave
C2 - B2: great octave
C3 - B3: small octave
C4 - B4: one-line octave, or 2nd small octave (contains both middle C and A440)
C5 - B5: two-line octave, or 3rd small octave
C6 - B6: three-line octave, or 4th small octave
C7 - B7: four-line octave, or 5th small octave
C8 - B8: five-line octave, or 6th small octave 

 

 

Alex is right, (as usual)

 

It is the baritone that goes down to the bottom of the bass clef: G2. not the Bass, which goes down one octave lower

 

 I guess the answer to the original question is that any regular G Bass will do, and if you want F1, then have the low G# tuned down to F1, it is easy to do by weighting the tip a bit more.

 

My senior, senior moment apologies to all. 

Edited February 23, 2021 by d.elliott
gramma

[Little John]

32 minutes ago, d.elliott said:

... then have the low G# tuned down to F1, it is easy to do by weighting the tip a bit more.

 

I think it makes more sense to tune the Ab down to F - then it's on the side of the instrument you would expect and it maintains the alternation from one side to the other when playing a scale.

[Stephen Chambers]

32 minutes ago, Little John said:

 

I think it makes more sense to tune the Ab down to F - then it's on the side of the instrument you would expect and it maintains the alternation from one side to the other when playing a scale.

 

Possibly, but it has long been the covention to tune the G# to F on treble English concertinas, and if that's what you're used to...

[Bassconcertina.net]

19 hours ago, d.elliott said:

 

 

 

Alex is right, (as usual)

 

It is the baritone that goes down to the bottom of the bass clef: G2. not the Bass, which goes down one octave lower

 

 I guess the answer to the original question is that any regular G Bass will do, and if you want F1, then have the low G# tuned down to F1, it is easy to do by weighting the tip a bit more.

 

My senior, senior moment apologies to all. 

Well AWESOME!! now just have to wait for on of those to come by🤣