Figuring out the 2 scales on my concertina

[larten27]

Hi there! This is my first post on this forum but not my first visit, so believe me I'm just as disappointed in myself for buying a wee 20 button Scholer as you will be. I own myself a lovely 48 bass piano accordion and wanted to branch out to other free reed instruments, my budget being what it is this Former German Republic model will do for now.

 

Honestly it was bought as a bit of a project, having a broken strap (which I have already temporarily mended) and 2 missing buttons which should be easier to replace thanks to the cheaper wooden design. The daughter of a family friend has been envious of my accordion since I got it and I thought this would be a fine gift for her next birthday if I could get it presentable.

 

The biggest issue I face is the notes themselves as I can't seem to figure out what keys the 2 rows of buttons are in. I won't kid myself into thinking this instrument will still be in tune after years of activity or lack thereof, but I hope enough of them are for someone to be able to help me. Using an online chromatic tuner I repeatedly tested each button on both the push and pull, to ensure as much accuracy as possible, and noted down the notes. I will attach an image of the results in the hopes that someone can help me figure out the key. (I will only be attaching the left hand notes as I presume that would be enough to identify the keys, but will happily post the right hand too if needed.)

 

I'm not sure what I'll do for the reeds that are invariably out of tune, in my corner of Scotland I can't find a suitable shop and I certainly wouldn't want to try and tune them myself. I'll burn that bridge when I come to it though.

 

Thank you in advance and I look forward to being a member of this fine community!

 

~Ethan

Edited December 29, 2020 by larten27

[Bill N]

Looks to me like it started life as a D/A (which is a pretty common tuning for these) instrument that has drifted sharp on some reeds.  In tune, from left to right starting at the top your note values should read:

 

A,C#,E,G,B

D,A,D,F#,A

 

E,G#,B,D,F#

A,E,A,C#,E

 

So, not too far off really.  The lower 2 buttons in each row on a German concertina can fool you, as they don't follow the same pattern as you might expect, or would find on an English made 20 button box.  Set up for oompah stuff I think.  Tuning those brass reeds down isn't that hard, and this would be a good box to learn that skill on.  Can you tell if it has single or double reeds?

 

If you don't want to do it yourself, whoever looks after your accordion could.  These German instruments are more like an accordion inside than an English style concertina.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by Bill N

[larten27]

12 minutes ago, Bill N said:

Looks to me like it started life as a D/A (which is a pretty common tuning for these) instrument that has drifted sharp on some reeds.  In tune, from left to right starting at the top your note values should read:

 

A,C#,E,G,B

D,A,D,F#,A

 

E,G#,B,D,F#

A,E,A,C#,E

 

So, not too far off really.  The lower 2 buttons in each row on a German concertina can fool you, as they don't follow the same pattern as you might expect, or would find on an English made 20 button box.  Set up for oompah stuff I think.  Tuning those brass reeds down isn't that hard, and this would be a good box to learn that skill on.

Thank you very much! Yeah those 2 bottom buttons had me confused before I remembered a chart I'd seen. Would you happen to know of any resources online that could guide me in tuning brass reeds? If I were to try I'd want to be as prepared as possible.

 

Honestly I'm tempted to overhaul it completely, definitely new pads and maybe even build a new bellows (been doing a lot of reading on those too, the engineer in me finds them fascinating).

 

Edit: It's only single reeded, the reeds are just fixed to the back of the action with one reed per note. So far I've not found anyone to work on my accordion, I got it second hand but I'm still looking.

Edited December 29, 2020 by larten27

[Bill N]

Well, the basic concept is that you change the pitch by scratching/filing away a tiny bit of material from either the tip of the reed (to sharpen pitch) or at the base (to flatten pitch).  You should find a fair amount of info on the process and tools by searching the archives here, but it will mostly relate to traditional English-style reeds, which are mounted in individual shoes that are dovetailed or screwed/clamped flat to the reed pan.  Your Scholer will probably have gang-mounted reeds on long plates that are mounted perpendicular to the reed pan using  simple L-shaped clamps. 

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by Bill N

[larten27]

1 hour ago, Bill N said:

Well, the basic concept is that you change the pitch by scratching/filing away a tiny bit of material from either the tip of the reed (to sharpen pitch) or at the base (to flatten pitch).  You should find a fair amount of info on the process and tools by searching the archives here, but it will mostly relate to traditional English-style reeds, which are mounted in individual shoes that are dovetailed or screwed/clamped flat to the reed pan.  Your Scholer will probably have gang-mounted reeds on long plates that are mounted perpendicular to the reed pan using  simple L-shaped clamps. 

 

I see what you mean now aye, they're not individually set and I can't get at the inner set without taking out the whole strip. I'll do a bit more digging but I've not found anything on here yet about the actual tuning process, let alone a system like this. I still appreciate all the input you've given me!

[Stephen Chambers]

2 hours ago, Bill N said:

If you don't want to do it yourself, whoever looks after your accordion could.  These German instruments are more like an accordion inside than an English style concertina.

 

In terms of instruments that are still made/played today (except for toy ones), brass long plate reeds are only used in harmonicas/mouth organs, and these days there are numerous people working on their own harmonicas to improve/tune them. 

 

You'll find a bunch of videos on the likes of YouTube larten 27, though you may get puzzled if they talk about Just Intonation Tuning rather than (the more generally used) Equal Temperament - but Just Intonation is an old system of tuning that's much sweeter on an instrument that only plays in one, or two, keys, and it was in general use for German concertinas and melodeons, and still is on harmonicas.

[Bill N]

2 hours ago, larten27 said:

I see what you mean now aye, they're not individually set and I can't get at the inner set without taking out the whole strip. 

 

You should be able to turn the "clamps" to the side with your fingers to free up the reed plate.  Then you will have access to both sides.

 

[lachenal74693]

12 hours ago, larten27 said:

...I'm just as disappointed in myself for buying a wee 20 button Scholer as you will be... 

Indeed! I just bought one to satisfy my long-standing curiosity about these instruments.

It looks in pretty good condition, but it is extremely disappointing - the build quality is very

poor.

 

However, you may be helped in your attempts to renovate this instrument by these videos:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbPw0yR19zM&list=PL777D961E7BDD0215&index=1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88yCVla_Djg&list=PL777D961E7BDD0215&index=2

 

There are at least two more, dealing with differently configured Scholer concertinas.

Edited December 30, 2020 by lachenal74693

[larten27]

15 hours ago, Bill N said:

You should be able to turn the "clamps" to the side with your fingers to free up the reed plate.  Then you will have access to both sides.

 

Which side of the reed plate is the draw and which is the push? Like does the air enter through the cavity behind the reed to sound it or vice versa. Just so I make sure I'm tuning the right reeds

[David Barnert]

The draw reeds face your hands. The push reeds face into the bellows.