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Crane/triumph Duet Key


Theo

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Just acquired a nice Lachenal Duet. It has 48 keys, 20 on the left, 28 on the right and arranged in 5 columns on each end. I think I'm correct in identifying it as a Crane or Triumph system. The puzzle is that the note layout appears to be based in the key of Bb. There are red buttons where I would expect to find C's, and the home scale starts on the red buttons and plays the scale of Bb. Actually about a quarter tone sharp of Bb, but I believe that probably is related to an old pitch standard.

 

Is this system common? Is the Bb version common? Would I be right in guessing that this concertina was made for people playing off notation transposed for brass bands? Could it have been a salvation Army instrument.

 

Some details:

 

Serial number 82 on both reed pans

An indistinct 5 digit number stamped into the right handrail.

Lachenal trade mark on right handrail.

Steel reeds, and judging by the sound they are good quality, slight rust, nothing serious.

Laminated rosewood ends with fine fretwork, but very dirty black looking, and may have been given extra dark varnish.

Black six-fold bellows.

Action board stamped J J Vickers, Leather case with Vickers label.

 

Theo

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Just acquired a nice Lachenal Duet.  It has 48 keys, 20 on the left, 28 on the right and arranged in 5 columns on each end. I think I'm correct in identifying it as a Crane or Triumph system.

That's a standard Crane layout. I have one with a Crane & Sons Ltd. label, though almost certainly built by Lachenal.

 

The puzzle is that the note layout appears to be based in the key of Bb. ...  Is this system common?  Is the Bb version common?

The Crane system (also known as Triumph) is common enough. At least within a factor of 2 or 3 of the Maccann, I'd guess, in total production. I don't know how common the Bb versions were, but I have run into more than one before.

 

Would I be right in guessing that this concertina was made for people playing off notation transposed for brass bands? Could it have been a salvation Army instrument.

I don't know if there's any way to know for sure, but both of those are reasonable guesses.

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Is this system common?

We've had about 150 Lachenal duets reported in the past few years (~2.5% sample) - ~100 were Maccann, and ~50 were Crane, so Jim's guess is pretty good.

 

An indistinct 5 digit number stamped into the right handrail.

Probably 21730, the Crane Patent number.

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Probably 21730, the Crane Patent number.

 

Hi Wes

 

I've just had a carefull look at the number. The last three digits are definitely 399, but the first digits are so covered up with layers of dirt and varnish that I can't even tell if there are 2 or 3 digits, never mind read them. So its not the crane patent number, and it does not match with the 82 marked on the reed pans.

 

In relation to a discussion on another thread about D/G anglos I had a close look at the reed shoes and they are marked with the notes you would find on a C tuned Crane, for example the Bb reed is marked C.

 

Theo

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  • 1 year later...

I have a 48k Crane made by Lachenal but badged 'Crane & Sons' - rosewood with Lachenal paper bellows, so presumably not for the Sally Ann, who I believe preferred their boxes a sober black. The right handrail is stamped on one side with the Lachenal 'English Made' steel reed trade mark, but the other side is stamped 'C&S 844'. This isn't the Lachenal serial number, which is on the reed pan (256), but is possibly a Crane & Sons serial number (maybe they started at a higher number to make it look as though they'd sold lots of them).

 

Or maybe not - if yours is 'C&S 399' and Lachenal serial 82, whereas mine is C&S 844 and Lachenal serial 256, that doesn't add up - unless Crane & Sons were selling other concertinas as well as the Lachenal/Crane series.

 

Crane & Sons still exist - as Crane Music, they've got a shop in Cardiff and just opened one in Swansea - has anyone contacted them to see if they still have the records of their end of the contract with Lachenal? It might give an insight into the missing ledgers of Lachenal.

 

Andrew

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Further to the above - I have just had a look at my 'second squeeze', a black 55k 'New Model' Crane with a Lachenal badge and the serial number 693. On the left handrail is stamped C&S 08808 (the last number is indistinct due to wear).

 

So we have:

 

Lachenal 82 = C&S 399 (1898?)

Lachenal 256 = C&S 844 (1900?)

Lachenal 693 = C&S 8808 (1905?)

 

Q. What sort of maths is in use here?

 

I assume that C&S stands for 'Crane and Sons', but is that so? No 693 is not badged Crane & Sons but Lachenal, although I suppose Crane & Sons may still have been the dealer. Is the C&S number a serial of all the concertinas Crane sold, of which only a subset were Lachenal-made duets? Perhaps they sold imported German concertinas as well? Or is it even the total number of instruments of all types that Crane sold? That seems unlikely. We need more information - any other Craniacs able to add anything?

 

Andrew

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Andrew

 

You need to go back and read my original posts more carefully. The concertina in question does carry no 82 presumably a Lachenal serial number, but the 399 you have quoted in error. What I said was that is a 5 digit number that ends 399, so it adds up even less than you thought!

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Sorry, Theo - just me jumping to conclusions. You did say the first two digits were so obscured by dirt and old varnish that you couldn't tell what they were, or even if they were two or three digits. I thought they might not be digits at all, but 'C&S', as on my boxes. On that slender basis, I built a whole structure out of moonshine! Not the first time, I'm sure!

 

Andrew

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..I built a whole structure out of moonshine! Not the first time, I'm sure!

As someone quite well known for such things, welcome to the club!

 

It won't help at all, but a Crane has been reported with the number 03724 on the handle. The serial was reported as 21730, but that is the patent number.

 

I've also got some of their piano numbers - and guess what? - they are nothing like these numbers either :D

 

Crane & Sons still exist - as Crane Music, they've got a shop in Cardiff and just opened one in Swansea - has anyone contacted them to see if they still have the records of their end of the contract with Lachenal? It might give an insight into the missing ledgers of Lachenal.

When I went Crane hunting, I came up with 'Bell and Crane'. Bell seems to be the same firm that used to do all the accordions. Cranes have been contacted a few years ago by a piano historian, but they said they had no archive material.

Edited by wes williams
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Sorry, Theo - just me jumping to conclusions. You did say the first two digits were so obscured by dirt and old varnish that you couldn't tell what they were, or even if they were two or three digits. I thought they might not be digits at all, but 'C&S', as on my boxes. On that slender basis, I built a whole structure out of moonshine! Not the first time, I'm sure!

 

Andrew

 

I'd not thought of that, I'd beter go and have another look at the indistict digits.

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Further to the above - I have just had a look at my 'second squeeze', a black 55k 'New Model' Crane with a Lachenal badge and the serial number 693. On the left handrail is stamped C&S 08808 (the last number is indistinct due to wear).

 

So we have:

 

Lachenal 82 = C&S 399 (1898?)

Lachenal 256 = C&S 844 (1900?)

Lachenal 693 = C&S 8808 (1905?)

 

Q. What sort of maths is in use here?

 

I assume that C&S stands for 'Crane and Sons', but is that so? No 693 is not badged Crane & Sons but Lachenal, although I suppose Crane & Sons may still have been the dealer. Is the C&S number a serial of all the concertinas Crane sold, of which only a subset were Lachenal-made duets? Perhaps they sold imported German concertinas as well? Or is it even the total number of instruments of all types that Crane sold? That seems unlikely. We need more information - any other Craniacs able to add anything?

 

Andrew

 

I recently overhauled another Crane badged Lachenal, 48 bone buttons, rosewood ends, brass reeds, Lachenal number 215 on the action and bellows, 225 on the reedpans, C&S 887.

 

Any help? Probably not! Just adds to the confusion.

Edited by malcolm clapp
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