seanc Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 (edited) Ok here is the scenario.... I have a Wheatstone 22.. it is awesome. I can not begin to do it justice. But putting a lot of time and effort in. I am trying to trade/ sell my ac Norman as I have come to realize I just can note make sense of the push pull different notes and the EC is clicking with me. The Wheatstone is Everything you could want. It is beautiful, fast, loud, cuts through... but.. it is LOUD. So... to try to ensure some matter of “domestic tranquility” at those appropriate and or inappropriate times. I am considering a back up. Something for when LOUD and cutting through are not the desired traits. so .. looking for something that still has that fast action and fast response. But just not that loud. Stick with Wheatstone? Expand the horizons into others? BB had a 3E that is pretty nice. the New model and Excelsior at BB were impressive. And I can’t seem to get Greg J’s Homewood TT out of my head either. is there a strong recommendation from the knowledgeable people here? And as a side note.. I picked up a 55b new model crane that is pretty darn impressive. Great tone. But just not Near as fast as the 22. Edited October 11, 2020 by seanc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiposx Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 (edited) I use a lachenal with brass reeds around the house as it doesn't have a piercing tone. I have bushed the buttons and set it up properly to enable a decent speed of play. It is nowhere near as fast as my steel reeded Wheatsone but I find that it is very good training to build music up to good speed on the Lachenal. The Wheatsone feels super easy after that training. A bonus is that I actually prefer the sound of the brass reeds. A repairer once told me that he played a nice Wheatsone before opening it up, finding that it was fast and responsive. He was surprised to find that in fact it had brass reeds. Edited October 12, 2020 by Tiposx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 A good wooden ended New Model makes a great companion to a 22. I made a double case that acts as a chair when stood on end, the spare compartment has had several occupants over the years but my favorite was a 48 rosewood New Model, great for those occasions when the 22 is just a little too much. The previous owner of that New Model wanted it back and now my double case has an unbalanced feel whilst I look for a suitable replacement..... perhaps an Aeola ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 an Excelsior coud really suit your needs IMO, the tone is sweet and mellow - just make sure that the action of a particular instrument is toleraly fast enough re your style of playing, and above all, that the air supply is sufficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanc Posted October 12, 2020 Author Share Posted October 12, 2020 Wow all three responses so far are Lachenal. I was not expecting that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Husmann Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 A decent Lachenal could do the job - I’ve got a wooden ended New Model which has a fast action, good reeds and a mellow and sweet tone. I’ve got a Model 22 as well and yes, it can be loud but it’s got a good dynamic range. Maybe it’s worth trying to play at the bottom end of loudness… installing internal baffles could help as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanc Posted October 13, 2020 Author Share Posted October 13, 2020 Is it that the New Model such a known commodity? Or are the later 50s/ 60s Wheatstones just really not thought that well of? Or, maybe a well known vs a less well known commodity? have to say that I am very glad I listened to the wisdom of the crowd here on the 22. It really is an immense step up over the older lesser model Lachenal I had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 (edited) The Lachenal New Model was perhaps the forerunner of the 'modern' concertina, a re-design of the standard Victorian instrument, it was a real step up in tone and dynamics . Its qualities must have caused a stir in the development department at Wheatstone & Co and led to the introduction of the model 22 and the Aeola . The New Model appears to have been made from the 1890's until the demise of the company. The closure of Lachenal & Co. , due to the economic circumstances of the period also heralded cost cutting measures at Wheatstone's. It is probable that market rivalry between the two factories led to some of the finest instruments being produced , but with the competition gone the bean counters had their way and later Wheatstone concertinas suffered the fate of being made down to a price. A very short and probably 'date' inaccurate history. Edited October 13, 2020 by Geoff Wooff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiposx Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Hi Geoff Woof I am interested in the improvements Lachenal made to the New Model that set it apart from the earlier ones. Could you give a bit more insight please? I have only played a New Model briefly some time ago but it seemed quick and light under the fingers, more like the Wheatsones I have played that have riveted action. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 (edited) Tiposx, now there is a topic to engage a technical expert and a concertina historian... of which I am neither but I'll try to put down some thoughts from the few New Models I have examined. In a comparison with the usual 'victorian' concertina as produced by most of the makers during the 19th century the New Model, which appears in Lachenal's Price list of ( assumed) 1890: The first thing to note is the refined Reedpan design ( at least in those I have examined) which is of the 'canted' or tapered type. This means that the wall heights of the reed chambers are lower towards the high notes and increase in elevation as the note pitches decend. The idea of this is to get all the notes to speak at a similar loudness at a set air pressure. The other change was to add cross walls in the reed chambers to decrease the air volume which in turn allows increased air pressure which also builds more quickly . These cross wall were sometimes added by owners of the older concertina design to increase the volume output. A block of cork jammbed between the chamber walls just past the ends of the reeds will speed up the speaking and increase efficiency of notes. So, with these two devices more and better balanced volume can be obtained . On the Victorian model the pallet hole sizes are usually the same throughout the range of the instrument but in the New Model these vent holes have been adjusted , graded in size , again with the intention of improving efficiency. I'm sure much attention was also paid to the action box. Perhaps the lever pivot points were shifted a little to improve the pallet lift. Certainly the 'raised ends' do bring the open part of the grills closer to the vent holes... perhaps that adds a more direct tone quality to these instruments. That these New Models were introduced as early as 1890 appears fact but I wonder how much further development took place. For me the metal ended versions are too strident but the Rosewood or Ebony ended types have a very lovely tone, perhaps imparted by their Mahogany pallet boards. Other things to note; the New Model's bellows are sometimes criticized for having short depth folds but they are usually of such fine quality that 100+ years on they are still able to function well. The general build quality of the New Model is also remarkable. Edited October 13, 2020 by Geoff Wooff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiposx Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 That is interesting, thank you. I didn’t know that the sound holes were in various sizes, or that the pallets were made from wood (if I understand correctly). That certainly makes them different to the lesser models that I have looked at. Regarding the tilted reed pan and shortened chambers I see that in all the 4 or so Lachenals I have opened, including the cheapest sort of tutor models, but they were built in or after 1910. I notice that the pivot hoops on the cheapest models are simple brass wire staples, whilst the better ones are accurately cut from some sort of steel with a black finish. It looks to be a higher grade material than mild steel and appears to be rust resistant. The action feels better on this design. Perhaps the New Models are similar. I apologise for thread drift! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Pallets are not made of wood , I mean the holes in the pallet board. Usually the action materials are Brass and certainly the pivots are of a decent quality on the New Models, some even have riveted action ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 18 hours ago, Geoff Wooff said: the New Model's bellows are sometimes criticized for having short depth folds a feature which they would share with their predecessors (f.i. the Excelsior which supplies a surprisingly small amount of air through its five-folds-bellows) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Indeed Wolf! I forgot to mention reed quality when suggesting the improvements happening during the early 1890's. Only the best reed makers were used on the more expensive instruments. Harry Boyd is purported to have specified that only the finest craftsmen should work on the concertinas he ordered, which suggests there was some variation in output quality. I have noticed that some concertinas have parallel sided reeds and in others the reed tongues are tapered. Obviously there was quite an amount of development work going on and "all the latest improvements" appears in the Lachenal price lists. All these small changes can make a huge difference; my 1898 Type 22 with its shallow flat reed pans and parallel sided reeds sounds very different to a Model 22 from post 1910. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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