Tiposx Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 I play Irish trad tunes on treble ec but every now and then I fancy the idea of a baritone version. I expect the baritone to be slower but sound good. I like the tone of the Aeola baritone as played by Dick Glasgow in several videos. I have read on this forum several times that the Morse Geordie is a good one, and that it sounds great - but I haven’t been able to find a video or recording that demonstrates what I would call a good tone. It could be that I haven’t heard a good one, but they do not sound sweet on the videos. On the other hand the Jack sounds ok to me but looks like hard work on the bellows. I am used to the sound of traditional concertina reeds, but I also play melodeon and accordion, so I sort of know where the ball park is. So I wonder what other baritone fanciers think - what are the options for a good sounding instrument? The Wheatstone are a lot of money! Can anyone point me to a good video of a Morse Geordie? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 (edited) Cannot help with and links to Geordie baritone videos. I tried one once, or perhaps it was the smaller Albion, but for me it did not have enough puff for the larger reeds. The instrument played by Dick Glasgow is a Baritone/Treble and that is what I play also. Basically a Treble keyboard with an octave downward extension , which means if you wish to play a tune one octave lower your fingering has to be reversed. A Standard Baritone is like a Treble tuned an octave lower, but I'm sure you know that. The Baritone /Treble takes a wee bit of getting used to but I do not find mine at all slow for playing Irish sessions , though my main use for it is adding harmony and chords in the lower regions whilst maintaining the melody in the treble ranges. Dick Glasgow's is the biggest version ( 64 keys) and my own is the smaller 56 key which is 8" across flats. This one from 1927, looks a bit rough around the edges but it's a player! Edited September 6, 2020 by Geoff Wooff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggy Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 I love your instrument Geoff Wooff, and would love to find one similar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiposx Posted October 29, 2020 Author Share Posted October 29, 2020 Well I found a good sounding video of a baritone by chance, and I thought it was a Wheatstone. So I messaged the player and found that it was in fact a Morse Geordie! Fast forward a little and I can now confirm what others have said both on the forum and privately - it is a very well built but light instrument. It has an easy action. It sounds really good to my ears and is a joy to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d.elliott Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 I have played baritone for some years now, and have restored quite a few, these comments relate to 'true' baritones,that is the transposed down by one octave. There are two broad classifications of instrument, double action, and single action. Double action, are built like the trebles and have reeds on both sides of the reedpan. they rely on valves to optimise and direct air flow on changes of bellows direction. Single action instruments have no reed pan valves as they only play as bellows are compressed,. Reeds are fitted on to the inner face of the reedpan only. They are fitted with 'gulper' flap valves which allow you to refill the bellows at the end of musical phrases, a bit like refilling the lungs by snatching air when you sing. Double action instruments are heavier (twice as much metalwork) and slower in response on the lower end of their compass due to the size of their leather valves. Skilled repairers will know about valve springs and valve restrains. to try and address this. Of the double action instruments there are two styles of reed pan: - Fully radial, just like the treble pan. Unfortunately the chambers for the lower notes do not permit reeds a big as might be ideal. So to get the lower notes into such relatively small chambers the reeds are usually made shorter, with thinner tongue bodies and then they are weighted, making them easier to sound flat when playing at higher pressures. - The there is the 'band baritone' where the reed pans are semi radial, and the reeds for the lower octave and a bit are set into parallel chambers with full sized and powerful reeds. The valves in these parallel chambers tend to be heavy and valve springs are really needed. The main downside is that there can be a tonal shift as you move up the scale and from parallel chambered reeds to radial chambered reeds. Often these instruments can have 42 keys rather than the radial 48 keys. My own baritone for the last ten years or so, was a Lachenal ebony ended new model band baritone, ideal for ensemble, band and a joy to play, however I have been looking out for a chance to upgrade to a single action instrument, mainly to reduce weight, avoid any valve issues and it's more immediate response time. For my money a single action big reed instrument beats a double action instrument hands down. The double action band baritone is better than the radial pan baritone for accompaniment and ensemble work, but the radial pan baritone has a more consistent tonality has long as the reeds are not forced. The Geordies are good instruments, light and easy to play, but on two I have played I found that the lower reeds, could 'bend' their pitch if played loudly. For voice accompaniment fine but for rhythmic play, Oom Pah Pah, and 'fff' perhaps a bit suspect. It probably needs the lower notes playing in chords under these circumstances. I hope this rambling helps. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Mitchell Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 (edited) Dave, Your post mentioning single action baritones reminded me that I have one. Now, I usually play anglo, this is the only English concertina that I have and my playing ability is limited. But, here's a quick clip of a piece that I used to play as a song accompaniment. You can see the "gulping" on occasions. The instrument has weighted brass reeds and the bellows have been recently replaced by Mark Lloyd-Adey. https://youtu.be/ZeOHX1kC0lw Mitch Edited October 31, 2020 by Howard Mitchell 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d.elliott Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Howard, nice tone! I find my playing the baritone equally frequent as playing my trebles. The single action seems to be more expressive, as well as lighter on the thumbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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