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michael01612

C/g Or G/d Anglo

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Just trying to understand the issues in c/g or g/d anglo concertina.

 

True or false:

 

1) If I play 99% of the time by myself, it doesn't matter what key I am playing in.

2) If I learned on a C/G, I could do the same exact fingering on the same exact song on a g/d and it would sound ok, only in a different key.

3) c/g is higher key, g/d is a lower key.

4) G/D is preferable for playing Irish jigs/reels in groups or at jams. There are more songs in these keys.

5) The resale value of both keys is identical.

6) There are more c/g concertinas around.

 

 

I guess I tentatively think these are all true, no?

 

Thanks,

 

Mike

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1) If I play 99% of the time by myself, it doesn't matter what key I am playing in.

2) If I learned on a C/G, I could do the same exact fingering on the same exact song on a g/d and it would sound ok, only in a different  key.

3) c/g is higher key, g/d is a lower key.

4) G/D is preferable for playing Irish jigs/reels in groups or at jams.  There are more songs in these keys.

5) The resale value of both keys is identical.

6) There are more c/g concertinas around.

I would confirm statements 1,2,3 and 6.

I am not sure about 5.

Statement 4 are in fact two statements. There are more Irish tunes D than in C.

Whether G/D is preferable for playing Irish jigs/reels depends on the style you would like to play (assuming that you have a 30button Anglo).

Starting from a D tune:

For playing mainly the melody line in a cross row style, the C/G is preferred by many Irish players.

When you would like to use chords (like in English Country Music) a G/D gives you more possibilities.

Edited by Henk van Aalten

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Thank you sir!

 

By the way, your recorded link page in you byland is a fantastic resource I just visited again and again to hear songs in various keys. What a collection....and well organized....invaluable!

 

Mike

 

 

 

1) If I play 99% of the time by myself, it doesn't matter what key I am playing in.

2) If I learned on a C/G, I could do the same exact fingering on the same exact song on a g/d and it would sound ok, only in a different  key.

3) c/g is higher key, g/d is a lower key.

4) G/D is preferable for playing Irish jigs/reels in groups or at jams.  There are more songs in these keys.

5) The resale value of both keys is identical.

6) There are more c/g concertinas around.

I would confirm statements 1,2,3 and 6.

I am not sure about 5.

Statement 4 are in fact two statements. There are more Irish tunes D than in C.

Whether G/D is preferable for playing Irish jigs/reels depends on the style you would like to play (assuming that you have a 30button Anglo).

Starting from a D tune:

For playing mainly the melody line in a cross row style, the C/G is preferred by many Irish players.

When you would like to use chords (like in English Country Music) a G/D gives you more possibilities.

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True or false:

1) If I play 99% of the time by myself, it doesn't matter what key I am playing in.

2) If I learned on a C/G, I could do the same exact fingering on the same exact song on a g/d and it would sound ok, only in a different  key.

3) c/g is higher key, g/d is a lower key.

4) G/D is preferable for playing Irish jigs/reels in groups or at jams.  There are more songs in these keys.

5) The resale value of both keys is identical.

6) There are more c/g concertinas around.

 

1) True

2) There are variations in keyboard layout, expecially with regard to the "accidental" row, but basically true.

3) True

4) Henk's right, this is two questions. Part a) False I think, my favourite keys to play in are D and A, and I use a C/G concertina. Part B) True, probably.

5) Don't know.

6) Probably.

 

It is a fallacy that an anglo concertina can only play, or even is best played, in its home keys and their related minors etc. Whilst not fully chromatic, it is far more versatile than most give it credit for. The contortions of brain required to make the most of this are part of the fun, for me: I see the instrument as a sort of musical version of Rubik's cube ...

Samantha

(edited for typo)

Edited by Samantha

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There are reasons to choose a G/D over a C/G but your premise number 4 is not one of those reasons. The C/G has become the de facto standard for Irish concertina. Virtually all instruction books, videos, and workshops assume the use of a C/G instrument. For that reason alone I would recommend a C/G for a beginner.

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In addition to what Sandy has just said, if you play a G/D;

- your fingering will either have to be mostly on the right side in order to play in the same octave as others. (I have only known one other player to play this way. He attended the Concertina summer school in conjunction with the All Ireland fleadh, and his style was thought to be quite strange and unorthodox.)

- if you play the lower octave on the left side you will not be able to hear yourself in most sessions.

 

In most instances, the G/D is a great second instrument to be used solo or with one other player on guitar, for example.

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1) If I play 99% of the time by myself, it doesn't matter what key I am playing in.

If you can't play in the same keys as others, that 99% could quickly become 100%. ;)

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In addition to what Sandy has just said, if you play a G/D;

- your fingering will either have to be mostly on the right side in order to play in the same octave as others. (I have only known one other player to play this way. He attended the Concertina summer school in conjunction with the All Ireland fleadh, and his style was thought to be quite strange and unorthodox.)

 

Coming to this topic rather late, having been away. It should be mentioned that playing the melody on the right hand side (and chords or parallel octaves on the left) is straight down the line orthodox English style. It is the way I play (so it must be right :rolleyes: ).

 

Chris

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Coming to this topic rather late, having been away. It should be mentioned that playing the melody on the right hand side (and chords or parallel octaves on the left) is straight down the line orthodox English style. It is the way I play (so it  must be right  :rolleyes: ).

 

Chris

 

Without wishing to say just "me too", well , me too.

The Irish Standard isn't the only way of playing.

 

So I would have to strongly disagree with Franks comment "In most instances, the G/D is a great second instrument to be used solo or with one other player on guitar, for example." especially from the point of view of players in English dance bands or at English sessions. I was at an English session last night and it was the two players of C/G instruments who looked odd in their contortions to play common tunes in the English repertoire.

 

 

Howard Mitchell

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1) If I play 99% of the time by myself, it doesn't matter what key I am playing in.

 

This is true for the most part, but the lower pitched reeds of the G/D can be slower in speaking than the C/G.

 

This means that if you play a piece on a C/G (especially across the rows - fast reel style), and then use the same fingering on the G/D, it may not sound as good.

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...the lower pitched reeds of the G/D can be slower in speaking than the C/G.

This means that if you play a piece on a C/G (especially across the rows - fast reel style), and then use the same fingering on the G/D, it may not sound as good.

"Can" and "may". The G/D doesn't have to be slower.

 

The reeds of my G/D Jeffries are quite quick, but so are those of the little Ab/Eb Lachenal I'm selling, now that I've given it new valves and adjusted the reeds. (Having done that, I need to redo the sound files. It made a big difference!) They're both much quicker than many a C/G I've tried to play.

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The G/D doesn't have to be slower.

In the same way a Citroen 2CV does not have to be slower than a Porsche (with flat tyres) :lol:

Seriously: when all other circumstances are equal (pads, valves, bellows, etc.), the G/D is inherently slower than a C/G. On the other hand the G/D gives you more possibilities on the "low side" than a C/G

 

BTW: I am very curious to hear the new soundfiles and maybe we are so lucky to hear the Ab/Eb Lachenal live at the SSI :unsure:

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Seriously: when all other circumstances are equal (pads, valves, bellows, etc.), the G/D is inherently slower than a C/G. On the other hand the G/D gives you more possibilities on the "low side" than a C/G

Just my own experience, but having handled quite a few C/Gs and G/Ds in my time, both accordion and traditional reeded, I have never personally observed any inherent slowness in the G/D system. I am aware of the theory, but have come to believe that difference is in fact minimal.

 

I also firmly believe that G/D is the perfect key for the anglo, the ideal marriage of key and system, but I don't necessarily expect others to agree with me (people being contrary at times) :)

 

Chris

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The G/D doesn't have to be slower.

...when all other circumstances are equal (pads, valves, bellows, etc.), the G/D is inherently slower than a C/G.

Well, if we consider the onset time to be one full wave cycle, and the reed to start up with maximal efficiency, then the difference in onset time between the lowest C of a standard C/G and the lowest G of a standard G/D is 1/500 second. If you can hear that difference, then I'm impressed! For higher pitches, the differences are proportionally shorter.

 

But I believe the delays due to the action of valves, pads, etc. are always longer than that, so in practical terms the G/D need not be any slower. Even if there's some extra delay from having limited force (in part due to airflow through a larger initial gap between the reed and the frame) to accelerate the more massive lower-pitched reeds, I don't think that should reach the point of exceeding the pitch-independent factors.

 

If we depart from theoretical optimums to practical experience, one might claim that G/D's simply are usually slower, and so there must be other factors affecting them. However, both Chris' and my experiences seem to contradict that.

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I also firmly believe that G/D is the perfect key for the anglo, the ideal marriage of key and system, but I don't necessarily expect others to agree with me (people being contrary at times)  :)

 

Chris

Chris

I am convinced that for you the G/D is the ultimate! Maybe you should convince me at the SSI, while we have some Duvel :) , because I am thinking about a second Anglo.

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I am convinced that for you the G/D is the ultimate! Maybe you should convince me at the SSI, while we have some Duvel :) , because I am thinking about a second Anglo.

I'm game!

 

See you there!

 

Chris

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I maintain they are both different instruments, play differently, and if you possess both, you will probably play different tunes (or even traditions) on each.

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Most comments I make on this forum are from the perspective of Irish Traditional music. My comments on this topic are no different. There are different styles of music, and playing, where a G/D would be a preferred primary instrument, as Chris has said, English - Melody right, Chords Left. However, my comments are for Irish-style anglo playing.

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