Who is the maker of concertina?

[_leszy_]

Greetings!

I've found an advert in my town, the lady sells an old concertina, but she has no idea who is the maker, ther is no marks on it at all.

Maybe someone on this forum can advise any information about this instrument?

Kind regards

Aleskei

[Geoff Wooff]

Looks like a Wheatstone.

[Stephen Chambers]

It appears to be a riveted reed Wheatstone, made between 1865 and the 1890s.

 

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Stephen Chambers

[_leszy_]

Thank you, Geoff and Stephen!

Stephen, and what does riveted reed means?

19 minutes ago, Stephen Chambers said:

It appears to be a riveted reed Wheatstone, made between 1865 and the 1890s.

 

 

 

[Stephen Chambers]

I'm using the term to describe a period, and a style, in Wheatstone's production but, normally, English-made concertinas have reeds that are clamped onto the reedplate and held tight by two screws - only in these the reed is simply riveted to the reedplate (more like the way accordion reeds are made.)

 

[_leszy_]

Oh, I see now. Thank you!

3 minutes ago, Stephen Chambers said:

I'm using the term to describe a period, and a style, in Wheatstone's production but, normally, English-made concertinas have reeds that are clamped onto the reedplate and held tight by two screws - only in these the reed is simply riveted to the reedplate (more like the way accordion reeds are made.)

 

 

[gcoover]

These can potentially be really good instruments - I have a 56-button Rosewood with flat-topped buttons from this period that I wouldn't trade for anything.

 

Gary

[_leszy_]

It seems to me that this instrument is more likely to be 48-key Lachenal than Wheatstone (the framework is too similar to the picture).
Anyway I bought it, I'll send more detailed photos soon.

Edited August 22, 2020 by _leszy_

[Stephen Chambers]

8 hours ago, _leszy_ said:

It seems to me that this instrument is more likely to be 48-key Lachenal than Wheatstone (the framework is too similar to the picture).

 

Both Geoff Wooff and myself speak from half a century of experience each, it's a Wheatstone and you should be very pleased that it is! (I have a 56-key one of the same model beside me as I type this.)

 

Louis Lachenal started to make that (machine-cut) fretwork for C. Wheatstone & Co. in 1848, and Wheatstone's continued to use that same design for more than half a century after that.

 

To help understand the relationship between Lachenal and Wheatstone's, here are a couple of articles that I've researched and written: Louis Lachenal: “Engineer and Concertina Manufacturer” (Part 1) and Some Notes on Lachenal Concertina Production and Serial Numbers.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by Stephen Chambers
Edited typo

[_leszy_]

So, here are some detailed photos of this concertina. By the way, I've found the number inside - 22349.

Concertina photos

 

In overall:

1. There are couple of cracks on the fretworks - really bad on the right side and not very big on the left. 
2. The boards itself is quite worn out near the bottons.
3. One of the screws is broken.
4. The mechanics seems to be fine on the right side, on the left side some bottons are without felt and moves freely.
5. The pads are worn out and aren't cuddle well.
6. The back sides of the boards are also really shabby.
7. All reeds are in place.
8. On the right reedblock there are several small cracks on the bellows side.
9. Bellows are airtight, but also worn out.

Actually it is my first english concertina and first upcoming experience of restoration :).

 

I believe that this forum has a lot of useful information that will help me. But I'd much appreciate any advice from more experienced people here on the forum.

 

Thank you!

 

Aleskei

 

Upd.

 

About the history of this concertina. As I understand the lady, who sold the instrument, it was in the family of circus actors since the end of XIX - begining of XX century.

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by _leszy_

[Stephen Chambers]

Good news, in that it looks like the Russian circus family must have owned it from new, and the instrument is actually a few years later than the "riveted reed" ones that it it looks just like - the reeds are actually of the "double-screwed" variety, which should make it louder than a riveted-reed one.

 

[alex_holden]

10 hours ago, _leszy_ said:

So, here are some detailed photos of this concertina. By the way, I've found the number inside - 22349.

Concertina photos

I believe that this forum has a lot of useful information that will help me. But I'd much appreciate any advice from more experienced people here on the forum.

 

(203414 and 203429) A few of the action springs look to be inappropriate replacements (e.g. modified safety pins). I think these very thin pads are original - modern replacements are generally quite a bit thicker because of the felt layer in the middle. You may need to make your own in order to get them thin enough to avoid having to bend all the action levers.

(203539) On this side the two round posts that are screwed to the underside of the end plate should be glued to the action boards.

(203654 and 203704) Ouch. It looks like there is quite a bit of damage to the bolt holes and the wood around them from overtightening. It's repairable but a fiddly job.

(203906) Reed pans and reeds look good, but the valves are old.

[Geoff Wooff]

14 minutes ago, alex_holden said:

 

 I think these very thin pads are original - modern replacements are generally quite a bit thicker because of the felt layer in the middle. You may need to make your own in order to get them thin enough to avoid having to bend all the action levers.

 

One of  my  concertinas  is  from this  same  period  and also  has the  very  thin pads. Luckily  mine are all in good condition  and  the instrument  is  very  airtight,  but I'd  hate  to  try  replacing them  with  modern  pads  and  I  am  grateful that  it  had  not  been  subjected  to  a  'throw  new parts  at  it'  type  restoration prior to  my  ownership  because  there is  precious   little room  for  the  action  as it  is.    Thicker  pads  would  inhibit    the  'lift' room  as the  lever  ends  would  hit the inside of the  fretwork ,  even  after  resetting and bending all the levers.    

I  agree  with  Alex  that  making new  pads of  the  original  thickness  would  be  best.

[RAc]

16 hours ago, _leszy_ said:

Actually it is my first english concertina and first upcoming experience of restoration :).

 

 

Well Aleskei,

 

I hope you do have extensive experience with wood/leather/paper/metal work outside of instrument restauration! Reading statements like the above tends to give me goose bumps - for the simple reason that concertinas make you believe they're easily restorable by amateur craftsfolks, but there are lots of trap doors you can fall into (btdt).

 

My own personal experience is that the first restoration project tends to be a throw away job for reasons that are impossible to assess without some experience. I strongly recommend to learn your abcs from a cheap beaten up instrument of which there are many offered on ebay. The one we're looking at appears to be too valuable to be at risk of falling victim to beginner's enthusiasm.

 

So best of luck - please keep us informed about your progress, but unless you are an apt and experienced craftsperson with lots of tools and patience at your disposal, expect the job to be harder and more time consuming than you may envisioned.

Edited August 24, 2020 by RAc

[Stephen Chambers]

It's a concertina that falls into a period of transition at Wheatstone's Aleskei, around 1896 - so it  still has a 19th century external appearance, but the reeds are better-quality and more like early 20th century ones.

 

If it is restored well it should play very nicely, and you may never need another concertina. In fact I wish I'd kept the very very similar one (# 22590 if I remember rightly) that I started out on, 50 years ago, because I came to realise that it was actually much better than I thought at the time I had it.

[_leszy_]

Good morning!

Thank you for your replies and advices.

Well, I indeed do not have a lot of experience in restoring, but I do not wnat to rush with this instrument and definitely I do not think that the restoring of concertina is and easy task.

For now I've made a list of things I think should be repaired at first:

1. Replace the non-original springs.
2. Replace the pads with original thickness (thanks Alex and Geoff).
3. Replace the valves.
4. Replace broken end bolt.
5. Replace the felt in the buttons where there is no felt.
6. Replace felt (is it felt?) on the reedblocks. 
7. Replace the felt (again, is it felt?) in the button-holes of the boards.
8. Clean the inside/outside of the boards.
9. Replace the posts and small wooden blocks made to hide the screws of thumb straps and finger rests; replace the srews.
10. I'll try to work with the crack on the right side board.
11. I'll try to restore the thumb straps.

I won't try to tune the reeds myself, I have a friend who is an accordion master in my town, hope he can help me with tuning.

 

Can anyone tell me, is "concertina-spares dot com" ok to buy there springs/end balt e.t.c.?

[_leszy_]

By the way, the end bolts are the same type but for some reason the three of eleven (I don't count the one which is broken) are 3,15 mm length, other are between 2,95 mm length. Shouldn't they be identical?

[alex_holden]

1 hour ago, _leszy_ said:

1. Replace the felt in the buttons where there is no felt.
2. Replace felt (is it felt?) on the reedblocks. 

 

The button "felt" is actually a thin, dense woven wool cloth. Concertina Spares sells small pieces of it as "bushing material".

If by "reedblocks" you mean the tops of the chamber dividing walls in the reed pans, it is probably chamois leather.

 

Vintage end bolts can be a bit of a problem because they aren't a standard thread specification. Length variation may be because somebody has previously replaced broken ones with second hand spares. When the action box is not attached to the bellows, try inserting the bolt and looking at how much thread protrudes from the bottom of the box. Sometimes, particularly when the bolt holes are badly damaged, you will find that there isn't enough thread length on the bolt - it stops turning before the box is fully clamped against the bellows frame (and if you keep trying to tighten it to stop the air leak, the bolt eventually snaps).