Help! With understanding

[StephenTx]

Seeking advice. On my English Baritone and concertina.  My G sounds fine on the push button on the pull it’s terribly off pitch.  

I’ve been pouring through my Dave Elliotts “Concertina  Maintenance Manual.  In an effort to understand what’s going on before I make the decision to send it off to Greg.  Now I know this must sound very elementary but from what I’ve read the reed must be working both on the pull and the push.  I am therefore assuming that on the Pull  The valve closers allowing the reader to play the note. Is this assumption correct? If it is then my issue would be that something is interfering with the valve? Is this correct?  Or Dave mention the “reed Tounge” (Which I am assuming is the reed itself and that something may be interfering with it moving in the opposite direction to produce the sound on the Pull?

I would appreciate any insights And wisdom from this knowledgeable group.

thank you

[Dana Johnson]

On English system concertinas which your baritone is, each note has two reeds, one that operated on the press and one using the same chamber that operates on the draw.  Free reeds used in concertinas and accordions are unable to function in both directions.  The draw or pull reed is out of tune which could be for a number of reasons.  There is only one reason that I can think of that you could safely do yourself.  The brass reed shoe or frame the reed tongue is attached To can become loose in its dovetail slot. This can cause the reed o go flat, and if it gets looser, it will begin to rattle.  You can check this and push the reed shoe tight in its dovetail.  Here is a pic of a later Wheatstone baritone reed pan showing how the reeds are attached.  Master Elliot‘s book should help after that.  The press reeds are on the top here and the draw reeds are opposite them inside the chambers.  The other possibilities are probably  best left to Greg to diagnose and fix.

Dana

( everyone else note the corrosion caused by the proximity of alum tanned valve leather )

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Dana Johnson
Added information

[StephenTx]

Dana,  Thank you!  Although I was not able to solve the problem your description I believe has helped me In further understanding The concertina and how it works.  Below is a picture  and I have some questions to see if I am thinking correctly. I hope you don’t mind me picking your brain or any others on the site who will have Advice.  I was confuse by your saying that each chamber has two reed as  all I could see was one. The picture below is of the chamber for the G.  I  believe I had  An ah ha After reading your note and also going back to Dave Elliotts book.The second reed therefore must be under the valve. Is this correct? If so then which reed is engaged and plays on the pull and which on the push?

I so much appreciate you taking the time to respond. Looking forward to hearing from you or anyone else who would chime in

It looks like my concertina is off to Greg ?

Thank you Stephen

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by StephenTx
Off to Greg

[RAc]

Hi Stephen,

 

yes that's correct. The second reed is under the valve. You can actually take out the entire reed plate, there should be a hole in it into which you can stick a finger in and pry the thing out. It may take some work, but the plate is not mechanically attached to the casing. In Order to avoid putting it back the wrong way, you may want to put alignment markers on the top with a felt tip pen or somwthing the like.

 

If you visualize the air flow, it's easy to deduct which one is which: On push, the bellows are initially full and press the air out via the reed whose button is pressed, so the air first pushes through the (inner) reed, then blows out the outer valve and escapes throgh the holes in the end plate. Likewise, the air presses against the inner valve and seals it, so all of the air must go through the inner reed. On pull, the reasoning is opposite.

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by RAc

[StephenTx]

Functioning of the concertina. Dana thank you so very very much. M, I learned a lot.!

[Dana Johnson]

The slightly odd thing about concertina reeds is that it doesn’t matter which side ( in or out ) the reed is in the chamber.  Both reeds are equally connected to the acoustics of the chamber.  Both are connected to the air flowing  through the same pad hole.  The leather flap valves are there to keep the air from leaking through the inactive reed.  So, there are indeed two reeds per chamber, but not “in” the chamber.the draw reeds are the ones you see in the chamber, so when you remove the end, those are the reeds you see.  You will be able to push forward ( toward the small end of the dovetail slot ) the brass reed shoe if it is loose.  The reed pan needs to be removed to access the press reeds, but that one is in tune you say.  
Dana

Edited August 17, 2020 by Dana Johnson