Low F# Ornaments

[Alan Caffrey]

Hello all,

quick question: the low F#, how do you ornament it? We play a tune called 'The Otter's Holt' at out session, it's not hard to play but when I play it by myself it has a low F# in the second bar and elsewhere that just begs to be ornamented, and when I look through the materials I have learnt from it doesn't seem to come up. Any tips?

Thanks, Alan.

[Bruce McCaskey]

Since no one else has as yet responded, I'll offer my perspective on the matter. I assume you're playing an Anglo...

 

I haven't played the tune before, but looked it up in a session book here and found a version of it in the key of D (two sharps).

 

For ornamentation I'd typically use a F# - A - F# three note sequence in place of the single F#, or perhaps use a B - A (descending) sequence prior to the F#. I wouldn't use a simple 'cut' A -F# since in each case the note prior to the F# is an A anyway so the 'cut' A would tend to get lost.

 

There are other things that could be done, but I find this works for my needs.

 

Good Luck,

 

Bruce

 

(Edited to remove temporary link to a sound sample)

Edited April 7, 2005 by Bruce McCaskey

[David Barnert]

I haven't played the tune before, but looked it up in a session book here and found a version of it in the key of D (two sharps).

Two sharps doesn't always mean D. It means D if you're in the Major mode, but this tune, as you play it (and I only know it from hearing your clip) is in the Minor mode, and is in B minor, which also has a key signature of two sharps. Other modes with two sharps are E dorian (very common in Irish music, example: Swallowtail Reel) and A Mixolydian (also common in Irish music, example: Little Beggarman). All these tunes have F# and C# and G natural and B natural in them, but they're not in D.

For ornamentation I'd typically use a F# - A - F# three note sequence in place of the single F#, or perhaps use a B - A (descending) sequence prior to the F#. I wouldn't use a simple 'cut' A -F# since in each case the note prior to the F# is an A anyway so the 'cut' A would tend to get lost.

 

I won't leave it in place forever, but here's a link to a sample of me attempting to illustrate my approach.

Sounds great, whatever key it's in!

[Henk van Aalten]

On a 20-button C/G, you will not be able to play in D because you will not have a C#.

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Two sharps doesn't always mean D.

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My conclusion is: when you do not have a C#, you cannot play a C#

[David Barnert]

On a 20-button C/G, you will not be able to play in D because you will not have a C#.

Two sharps doesn't always mean D.

My conclusion is: when you do not have a C#, you cannot play a C#

Very funny, Henk. Context, of course is everything. In the first quote, it was not necessary to say "D Major," although that's of course what I was talking about. Without a C# you can, of course, play in D Mixolydian (has same key signature as G Major) or D Dorian (same sig as C major).

[Bruce McCaskey]

I have to confess that the name of this tune has been distracting me. I've been wondering just what an "Otter's Holt" might be. After following a link of Robin Madge's in another posting, I ran across an answer and other information about the tune at this site. Under the "Comments" tab scan down to find an entry titled "Origin of the title."

 

My reason for re-addressing this thread stems from the comment in that entry about playing the tune 'a tone lower.' I admit I don't have the musical background to judge whether that truly puts it into "Am" as suggested (well, maybe I almost do but I don't want to have to think that hard), but regardless, I thought you might want to give it a try Alan.

 

I did and it changes that F# you wanted to ornament to an E which you might find easier to ornament using the G above it. As an added plus, if the entry can be believed it puts it back to where it was supposed to be anyway. Of course dropping the tone won't work for your sessions, but I believe you were looking to ornament your solo playing of the tune.

 

Now that I know the (I assume credible) history of the tune I'll likely take up playing it.

 

By the way, I removed my sound sample link from my earlier posting today, as stated before it was only a temporary offering though I hope it offered some insight.

 

Bruce

[David Barnert]

...playing the tune 'a tone lower.'  I admit I don't have the musical background to judge whether that truly puts it into "Am" as suggested (well, maybe I almost do but I don't want to have to think that hard), but regardless, I thought you might want to give it a try Alan.

 

I did and it changes that F# you wanted to ornament to an E which you might find easier to ornament using the G above it.

Yes, all this is correct. Playing a tone lower means every note in the tune is the next note down, and B minor (same key signature as D major, with 2 sharps) becomes A minor (same key signature as C major, no sharps).

As an added plus, if the entry can be believed it puts it back to where it was supposed to be anyway.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

[Paul Groff]

David,

 

If you follow the link Bruce provided, there is a mention that this tune was composed by the late "Junior" Crehan, an influential West Clare fiddle and concertina player. Junior’s son, Tony Crehan (R. I. P.) was one of my first concertina teachers, and I have a short recording somewhere of the father and son playing a few of Junior's lovely compositions, both on concertinas. Not the"Otter's Holt," though, unfortunately.

 

I had also heard that Junior composed the Otter's Holt. (Re: "composing," though, keep in mind, that many of Junior's well-known and often recorded tunes were to some extent "re-workings" of previously-existing traditional material). In the link given by Bruce, one writer mentions that Junior played "the Otter's Holt" "a tone low" (presumably meaning in A minor rather than the more familiar B minor key common in - concert pitch - Irish music sessions today, due to the influence of the Matt Molloy recording).

 

I often think there is a little too much literalism about "standard keys" among a lot of today's Irish music hobbyists, especially among some of my fellow North-Americans who didn't grow up in the tradition and first encountered it as adults. This may be because so many of these adult learners are getting their tunes from written or ABC versions, rather than letting the music sink into their ears and feet, or because they are in such a hurry to start playing in groups before they have gotten a sense of what makes the music tick.

 

When playing solo, Junior Crehan -- like any great musician in that tradition -- was a complete musical experience, and his fiddle playing needed no accompanying "session" to communicate all the rhythm, tonality, mood, local style, and personal inventiveness that any listener or dancer could hope for. Many of the West Clare fiddlers of his generation were recorded with fiddles tuned down a half step or a whole step from what we think of as concert pitch (so when playing a tune "fingered in D" it might come out in C# or C). Of course, playing solo they would be free to pitch the fiddle or to choose the "keys fingered" to suit their comfort or their sense of where the tune sounded best. When joining with other fiddlers of course a rough consensus would have to be achieved but this would not necessarily be at D pitch or at A 440. The presence of a flute (maybe an antique more comfortable at A 428 or A 452) might influence things - or of a concertina which might be a C/G played in C, or a Clarke's whistle played in C (so a "tone low" in either of the latter cases).

 

I don't know whether Junior always (or sometimes) FINGERED the Otter's Holt on the fiddle using the fingerings a concert-pitch player would use for A minor, or whether he fingered it in B minor and had the fiddle tuned down a tone on the recording mentioned. I do know that when playing a C/G concertina he was happy playing some of his compositions in the key of A minor. From what I heard of his concertina style, I doubt he would ever have played the "Otter's Holt" in B minor on the concertina unless the concertina had one of its rows in D or A (but I might be wrong about that!).

 

Perhaps Kevin Crehan who plays many of his grandfather's tunes -- and who plays concertina as well as his lovely fiddling -- can tell us more about Junior's "original" or "preferred" key(s), and pitch(es), for this tune.

 

But no matter where he pitched it I think a musician should consider finding the fingering, key, and pitch with which he or she can get the most music out of the tune, on whatever instrument they are using. I think that is what the musicians of Junior's generation did. I also think that is what Matt Molloy did. You might or might not find others to play along with you, but if not then your version will still be worth a listen.

 

Paul

[Paul Groff]

David,

 

One more point since I'm in this thread anyway.

 

Many, many Irish traditional tunes in the key of D that sound best harmonized with major chords (so that most musicians think of them as "D major tunes") actually only use 5 or 6 different notes and so are really pentatonic or hexatonic. Many never need a C# and can be played very satisfactorily on a C/G 20 button anglo. So when playing in D on a C/G 2-row one is not limited to the Dorian or Mixolydian modes.

 

Examples: "The Boyne Hunt," "Rolling in the Ryegrass," the "Kerry Polka," "the Bohola Jig (Cooley's Jig)," "Mickey Callagahan's Fancy" (D version from John Kelly's fiddling, as noted in the Breathnach book), and many more.

 

Paul

Edited April 8, 2005 by Paul Groff

[Alan Caffrey]

Morning all! (well it is here)

just wanted to say thanks for the help/suggestions,

 

Alan.

[Sandy Winters]

Hi Alan, I hate to sound like a broken record (no, I don't :-) but check out Simon Wells' tutor. Do a search here or just google it. You'll find lots of good info on anglo ornamentation.

 

As for the low F#, a very typical method is to use the high D and B (C row, RH) as the ornamental notes.