Advice please

[seanc]

7 hours ago, David Barnert said:

 

No, 30 buttons is plenty. “Outgrow” meaning upgrade to a better instrument.

The cc and wren are both beginner instruments. They ( making a leap as I don’t know the wren and  I will make the blind assumption that the wren is at least on par with the CC here) serve their intended purpose of getting somebody started on playing. They are decent, solid instruments.
 

IMO.. they sound, just OK. they play well enough to be a serious instrument. And for a person just getting started and not sure they are going to stick with it is a place to start. My impression, now that I know a little more. Is that it is big, it is plastic, stiff bellows, long throw on buttons and bland sounding. And you really can not appreciate what “slow” means until you get to the point in your playing and start to hit the limits of the instrument.
 

this is not to discourage you at all. But, to reinforce that this/these are very capable instruments that hit a great entry level price point. Solid build, reasonable action. Ok sound etc. But, it will likely NOT be the last instrument you buy. And will likely grow out of it.

 

i have had the CC Anglo and the English, moved on and up. Now I am seriously thinking of picking up the CC Hayden just to see if that may work for me.

And get my feet wet on a duet.

 

Edited July 15, 2020 by seanc
Clarify

[Daniel Hersh]

2 hours ago, seanc said:

The cc and wren are both beginner instruments. They ( making a leap as I don’t know the wren and  I will make the blind assumption that the wren is at least on par with the CC here) serve their intended purpose of getting somebody started on playing. They are decent, solid instruments.
 

IMO.. they sound, just OK. they play well enough to be a serious instrument. And for a person just getting started and not sure they are going to stick with it is a place to start. My impression, now that I know a little more. Is that it is big, it is plastic, stiff bellows, long throw on buttons and bland sounding. And you really can not appreciate what “slow” means until you get to the point in your playing and start to hit the limits of the instrument.
 

this is not to discourage you at all. But, to reinforce that this/these are very capable instruments that hit a great entry level price point. Solid build, reasonable action. Ok sound etc. But, it will likely NOT be the last instrument you buy. And will likely grow out of it.

 

 

I generally agree with this.  A Rochelle or a Wren is a good place to start, and if you find you like the concertina, you will probably want to move up to a better instrument at some point.  I haven't played a Wren but they've received good reviews (as a starter instrument) from players I respect.  I think they're a bit smaller than a Rochelle, so they're closer to a standard concertina size.

[seanc]

41 minutes ago, Daniel Hersh said:

 

I generally agree with this.  A Rochelle or a Wren is a good place to start, and if you find you like the concertina, you will probably want to move up to a better instrument at some point.  I haven't played a Wren but they've received good reviews (as a starter instrument) from players I respect.  I think they're a bit smaller than a Rochelle, so they're closer to a standard concertina size.

I just looked at the specs. It looks like the wren is wood, as opposed to plastic. And they also offer a trade in.

 

that said.. at 500 retail, with lessons and trade in.. I would be looking a at a sub $300-350 as a reasonable cash price.

 

[Roger Hare]

10 hours ago, Daniel Hersh said:

...I think they're a bit smaller than a Rochelle, so they're closer to a standard concertina size.

I tried a CC (English) recently. I think I'm correct in saying that the Rochelle is the same size.

The larger size (7 1/4" ax the flats IIRC) was a huge disadvantage as far as I was concerned.

 

Oops! I meant 7 1/4"!

Edited July 16, 2020 by lachenal74693

[aufderdiatonischen]

On 7/15/2020 at 4:17 PM, seanc said:

I just looked at the specs. It looks like the wren is wood, as opposed to plastic. And they also offer a trade in.

 

that said.. at 500 retail, with lessons and trade in.. I would be looking a at a sub $300-350 as a reasonable cash price.

 

Thanks.  I'm sure the current owner has used up the lessons already because the ad says they only played it twice!

 

[aufderdiatonischen]

On 7/15/2020 at 4:17 PM, seanc said:

I just looked at the specs. It looks like the wren is wood, as opposed to plastic. And they also offer a trade in.

 

that said.. at 500 retail, with lessons and trade in.. I would be looking a at a sub $300-350 as a reasonable cash price.

 

So the Rochelle is plastic?

[W3DW]

The Rochelle is not made from plastic. 

[David Barnert]

11 hours ago, aufderdiatonischen said:

So the Rochelle is plastic?

 

1 hour ago, W3DW said:

The Rochelle is not made from plastic. 

 

Look at the edges of the fretwork (from http://www.concertinaconnection.com/rochelle anglo.htm). Plywood, or some kind of laminate.

 

[seanc]

7 hours ago, David Barnert said:

 

 

Look at the edges of the fretwork (from http://www.concertinaconnection.com/rochelle anglo.htm). Plywood, or some kind of laminate.

 

then CC does a remarkable job of making their woods look and feel like plastic.. at least going by the Rochelle and jackie that I had.
 

But regardless. It is a good instrument at a very good price point with a lot going for them. 

 

and I do agree with Lach7 they are definitely large. Let’s just agree they are “big boned” and “have.a great personality”. And now having looked at and being reminded the bolts are just well, unfortunate..

 

 

 

 

Edited July 17, 2020 by seanc

[aufderdiatonischen]

On 7/17/2020 at 1:51 PM, seanc said:

then CC does a remarkable job of making their woods look and feel like plastic.. at least going by the Rochelle and jackie that I had.
 

But regardless. It is a good instrument at a very good price point with a lot going for them. 

 

and I do agree with Lach7 they are definitely large. Let’s just agree they are “big boned” and “have.a great personality”. And now having looked at and being reminded the bolts are just well, unfortunate..

 

 

 

 

Bolts??  The wren2 has bolts too..........

[aufderdiatonischen]

I do like the looks of the Rochelle better than the wren2 but someone mentioned that the Rochelle is Chinese production.  I did not find out about the wren2, is it Chinese too?

[Roger Hare]

1 hour ago, aufderdiatonischen said:

...I did not find out about the wren2, is it Chinese too?

The spec' for this instrument is here, though the McNeela web site is rather irritating,

with constant pop-ups getting in the way of actually looking at the information.

 

AFAICS, the site does not directly address the question of where the things are made,

but I seem to remember reading somewhere that they were actually assembled in Ireland

(which may mean Chinese parts,  of course).

Edited July 19, 2020 by lachenal74693

[seanc]

If you have the money.. it would be a pretty cool experiment if you were to buy one of each new. maybe put together a YouTube.
I would assume they both offer some sort of 100% money back return policy. 

 

i think there are quite a few people that would benefit from a side by side on these. Even from a newbie, it may be quite helpful for a lot of people.

[seanc]

8 hours ago, aufderdiatonischen said:

Bolts??  The wren2 has bolts too..........

yes .. to me the Wren’s bolts are just a bit less Frankenstein-ish.

 

why both of them did not go with black bolts and washers is beyond me for an aesthetic point. 

[aufderdiatonischen]

8 hours ago, lachenal74693 said:

The spec' for this instrument is here, though the McNeela web site is rather irritating,

with constant pop-ups getting in the way of actually looking at the information.

 

AFAICS, the site does not directly address the question of where the things are made,

but I seem to remember reading somewhere that they were actually assembled in Ireland

(which may mean Chinese parts,  of course).

 

 

 

 

 

 Here is a screenshot:

 

 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by aufderdiatonischen

[Don Taylor]

The use of the word 'produce' is interesting.

 

I suspect that both the Concertina Connection and McNeela buy stock Chinese concertinas and then re-work them to make them usable.  If you look in Alibaba.com you will find concertinas (for bulk purchase) that look very much like either the Rochelle or the Wren 2.

 

The question then becomes, what do these western suppliers do (or commission to be done for them in China) to upgrade these boxes? 

 

I know that the Concertina Connection replaces the Stagi-like actions with a riveted action.  I don't know what McNeela does, I would be very interested in seeing some interior shots.

[seanc]

18 minutes ago, Don Taylor said:

The use of the word 'produce' is interesting.

 

I suspect that both the Concertina Connection and McNeela buy stock Chinese concertinas and then re-work them to make them usable.  If you look in Alibaba.com you will find concertinas (for bulk purchase) that look very much like either the Rochelle or the Wren 2.

 

The question then becomes, what do these western suppliers do (or commission to be done for them in China) to upgrade these boxes? 

 

I know that the Concertina Connection replaces the Stagi-like actions with a riveted action.  I don't know what McNeela does, I would be very interested in seeing some interior shots.

Based on the wording..

I would suspect that these are 100% Chinese made. Bringing in Italian reeds. Then some sort of testing, QC and possibly final tuning and tweaking take place in Ireland. 
 

but again. There is nothing wrong with this. Especially on a starter instrument. 

[aufderdiatonischen]

5 hours ago, Don Taylor said:

The use of the word 'produce' is interesting.

 

I suspect that both the Concertina Connection and McNeela buy stock Chinese concertinas and then re-work them to make them usable.  If you look in Alibaba.com you will find concertinas (for bulk purchase) that look very much like either the Rochelle or the Wren 2.

 

The question then becomes, what do these western suppliers do (or commission to be done for them in China) to upgrade these boxes? 

 

I know that the Concertina Connection replaces the Stagi-like actions with a riveted action.  I don't know what McNeela does, I would be very interested in seeing some interior shots.

 

The word "produce" is associated with the Phoenix and Swan models - their better or higher quality models.