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Memorising Music


ucyljad

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I've been pondering and attempting some analysis of the difficulties I find in memorising music, ie not just a one line tune that you know or have learnt and can play by ear, but an arrangement which includes accompaniment of the tune in both right and left hands of various numbers of notes in arpeggios or chords.

Also, my thoughts have not been limited to concertina playing, but include for example the piano, or indeed any instrument that can stand alone & can therefore imitate to some extent an orchestra (note, although concertina accompaniments are usually less complicated they are often just as difficult to play as more complex ones on piano).

 

There have been a couple of interesting posts about playing and learning by ear, that touched on the subject. I think they were more about playing one-line tunes, which is comparatively easy.

Incidentally, although I find it difficult to define the musical process, learning for me is more about being able to play from the written notes, while memorising is the next stage. At both stages one may be able to play the piece fully.

 

I wondered how difficult other people find memorisation of full pieces?

 

As an example of timescale, taking one of David Cornell's arrangements from www.maccan-duet.com, I reckon I can learn most arrangements from written music quite well within a week if I put my mind to it; but they can take up to a couple of months to memorise & play well, depending on the difficulty of the arrangement. This means I have to be highly selective about what I initially learn and then take time to memorise.

So it takes a couple of months for a piece to become 'solid' and I am confident in playing it.

 

Memorisation for me has never become perceptively easier once facility with an instrument has been reached, presumably partly because I am attempting to memorise more difficult works as my technique improves. Also if I don't run through things I have previoulsy memorised, over the years I gradually forget them and fill in/improvise the bits that have 'gone'. Put the music in front of me and I can play them well, but not as before. I am currently re-learning and memorising an Art Tatum piano arrangement of Sweet Lorraine which, at the age twenty, I could play through at speed. The harmonically complex (not fast) bits are the parts I forget.

 

Only sheer repetition and daily practice seems to help my memory. I find listening to music pieces aids learning and memorisation of a tune and words, but not of playing accompaniments. Was it Beethoven who went to a concert, then proceeded to write out the full score later that night?

 

Well, there are my jumbled up thoughts. I'd be interested in any comments on memorisation and how you approach it.

 

 

Andy Dawson

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I've been pondering and attempting some analysis of the difficulties I find in memorising music, ie not just a one line tune that you know or have learnt and can play by ear, but an arrangement which includes accompaniment of the tune in both right and left hands of various numbers of notes in arpeggios or chords.

Also, my thoughts have not been limited to concertina playing, but include for example the piano, or indeed any instrument that can stand alone & can therefore imitate to some extent an orchestra (note, although concertina accompaniments are usually less complicated they are often just as difficult to play as more complex ones on piano).

 

There have been a couple of interesting posts about playing and learning by ear, that touched on the subject.  I think they were more about playing one-line tunes, which is comparatively easy. 

Incidentally, although I find it difficult to define the musical process, learning for me is more about being able to play from the written notes, while memorising is the next stage.  At both stages one may be able to play the piece fully.

 

I wondered how difficult other people find memorisation of full pieces? 

 

As an example of timescale, taking one of David Cornell's arrangements from www.maccan-duet.com, I reckon I can learn most arrangements from written music quite well within a week if I put my mind to it;  but they can take up to a couple of months to memorise & play well, depending on the difficulty of the arrangement.  This means I have to be highly selective about what I initially learn and then take time to memorise.

So it takes a couple of months for a piece to become 'solid' and I am confident in playing it.

 

Memorisation for me has never become perceptively easier once facility with an instrument has been reached, presumably partly because I am attempting to memorise more difficult works as my technique improves.  Also if I don't run through things I have previoulsy memorised, over the years I gradually forget them and fill in/improvise the bits that have 'gone'.  Put the music in front of me and I can play them well, but not as before.  I am currently re-learning and memorising an Art Tatum piano arrangement of Sweet Lorraine which, at the age twenty, I could play through at speed.  The harmonically complex (not fast) bits are the parts I forget.

 

Only sheer repetition and daily practice seems to help my memory.  I find listening to music pieces aids learning and memorisation of a tune and words,  but not of playing accompaniments.  Was it Beethoven who went to a concert, then proceeded to write out the full score later that night?

 

Well, there are my jumbled up thoughts.  I'd be interested in any comments on memorisation and how you approach it.

 

 

Andy Dawson

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ucyljad,

I feel your pain. I've been playing guitar and singing at local coffeehouses and festivals for a few years. I always like to play without music since I can make better contact with the audience. Still, there only six or seven songs that I feel comfortable playing from memory.

 

I probably could play more from memory, but I don't like to take the chance unless I have the song down cold. (Vanity?)

 

Anyhow, to answer your question. When I'm trying to memorize a song (tune), I look for patterns. Most tunes repeat in places, so you don't really have to memorize a whole tune, just pieces, and repeat them.

 

Other than that, it's just a case of playing it over, and over and over and....

 

Even now, as I'm trying to learn the concertina, I try to get off the music as fast as I can. But, it will be a loooong time before I'm ready to play in public without music.

 

Cappy :D

 

Dang!! I'm still learning how to use this forum. I didn't mean to quote your whole note!! Arggghhhhh!!!

Edited by Cappy
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I can only agree with you on your problems relating to by ear playing.Initially I learn a peice note by note with chord by chord until I get to the end.This is more difficult on an anglo as some chords or note progressions need you to play in the opposite direction, or air limitations, for the piece being played.It is when you have slowly mastered the tune, played it at the right speed, with the arrangement you are pleased with,that you have to continuously play it to keep it in your mind.Learning words for a play is exactly the same.The only good thing is with a little practice it will come back to how you played it before, or the words you learnt before.

For Country Dance music it is slightly different, most by ear players remember a tune when it is played in a session and most tunes follow a reasonable pattern and if you know the tune you can play along to it.

It is sadly all down to practice.

Al

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Very insteresting. I think it comes down to the individual and the aging process.

 

As a young blade, I heard it or read it and it was mine. The languages I sing in were the same, English, French, German, Latin and Italian. For the last few years I have been loosing my ability to memorize in German and Italian. The melodies are right there as are the arrangements, but the words (even in works I have performed on and off for 30 years) are not secure any longer and new works...forget it. English and some French are really all I want to do now. An emotional choice? I don't know.

 

Having stopped playing concertina for some 20 years, I was amazed at the speed tunes came back through my fingers seemingly at random now that I have waded back into the river of life. New tunes learned by ear take longer. I'll memorize them as I work them out, but they seem to get lost and I can't recall them until a line is played from them and off I go. After a while that is no longer the case.

 

New tunes learned through transcription (new idea for me on concertina) are there from the get-go. I close my eyes and see the music.

 

Like Alan, I devote a lot of time to practice.

 

Arrangements with my different musical groups go to memory very fast. I think it's the association with the people and their instruments. Seems to be related to the way I memorized opera roles...only when the staging process began did the words become settled because they were associated with movement and interaction with others on stage (my guess here).

 

By the way, I still have stress dreams where I am on stage trying to sing some $%#*&^% opera I don't know....and of course I'm buck naked (very ugly thought I know) :blink: .

Edited by Mark Evans
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All that has been said before applies. Learning to memorise music takes time and practise. A lot of it. There have been written several books on the subject over the last 100 years. Most of them by classical musicians. One of them is Gieseking, famous pianist and teacher. I have had much help by reading his books and by using movement during my practicing. That is called Dynamic Rehearsal. It is a special way to learn to perform music and many psychologists will agree that movement helps memorising. There are special trainings developed for people to improve memorising of anything not just music. All the same it is not enough to memorise fingering on an instrument, although that helps too and is movement. But it is too limited. Have a look at themovementofmusic I am writing a dissertation on that subject and found that there are quite a lot of people who are unaware of this method which also improves expressive playing besides memorising.

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An interesting discussion.

I've never heard the phrase "Dynamic Reahersal" before, but I do believe in the concept. Many years ago, I saw Dave Brubeck in concert with his trio. His son, whose name I forget, played the bass in the group. During the concert, the son just moved and shook and wiggled all over the place. He moved his head, he moved his legs, he contorted his body. It was almost comical.

 

A few days later I heard him interviewed and he explaind to the interviewer that all that movement helps him memorise the music. He said that although his movement may appear random, he actually moves the same way everytime he plays a particular song. " I don't just memorise with my brain", he explained, " I memorise with my whole body."

 

I have done similar things while trying to memorise a piece of music, and I firmly believe that it helps.

 

Cappy :blink:

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Yes I found out about this method through reading Jacqueline du Pre's biography. She was an outstanding musician (cellist) and her mother trained he in her childhood through the method that was Dalcroze Eurythmics. That is why she moved the way she did while playing. Nowadays this method is mostly thought of as being for small children only. But Dynamic Rehearsal is in fact the application of Dalcroze Eurythmics and is also used for advanced and professional musicians.

It works for soloists, ensembles and even orchestras.

I t is a great way and unbelievably easy to apply with some coaching.

It also helps to prevent nervousness in a very serious way and to solve technical problems which otherwise can cause injuries.

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A very interesting topic. I was fortunate to see Jacqueline du Pre perform about 37 years ago and was fascinated by her exaggerated angular movements while playing - I thought it had to do with her illness.

 

I myself played and performed extensively when I was 12 to 23 years old. I then performed very little until I was in my 50's. Part of the reason for the hiatus was a problem with my hand that was finally corrected. All the same I have not found the physical aspects of playing instruments or singing to be much of a problem now.

 

My big problem is lyrics. Even though I spend an inordinate amount of time memorizing them I am still likely to draw a blank in the middle of a performance. I hate to perform with a music stand but have been forced to on occasion. There does seem to be a point after a few months which must be when the lyrics must move from short to long term memory when the problem lessens. It has caused me real concern as I had recently had problems preparing for exams. I chalk it up to age and joke about it but I continue to work hard to learn new lyrics as I understand that exercising the memory improves it.

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Pauline, thank you for bringing up Jacqueline du Pre. I always loved her playing. I assumed the movements were associated with her energy. Held off for a while but had to get out her recording of the Elgar Cello Concerto with the London Symphony this early afternoon and listen to it while in the garden.

 

She was an artist of the highest level and made that Strad sing. Yo-Yo Ma owns it now I understand and he plays it well, but it no longer sings. I am a bit sad at that thought. Ah well.

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Yes Mark it has to do with energy too. You see in order to express music (play expressively) one does use a ecrtain amount of energy related to the expressiveness. Like in anger... When you are angry you use a lot of energy. When you try to express such a feeling in music it requires the same amount of energy. If you are just following instructions from a teacher or the score saying fff (fortissimo) it is not so easy to call forth the necessary expression. When you have expressed it in movement, by for exampl throwoing a ball with much force onto the floor, you can then imagine while you are playing the music how that felt. And then you see that the musician immediately knows what to do, how to use technique or anything he has learnt without even thinking. It just happens. Anyway that is why it is the energy that shows. Unfortunately in classical music, but also in Folk and jazz, this aspect is often not realised by teachers. They are not taught themselves in that way and only know about the rigid theoretical way of teaching. Mostly in a small room just big enough to stand or sit in. And certainly no space to move.

I WILL PUT AN INSTRUCTION ON MY WEBSITE BY THE END OF MAY SO THAT ANYONE WHO IS INTERESTED CAN READ MORE ABOUT IT AND TRY IT.

Edited by Pauline de Snoo
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My big problem is lyrics. Even though I spend an inordinate amount of time memorizing them I am still likely to draw a blank in the middle of a performance. I hate to perform with a music stand but have been forced to on occasion. There does seem to be a point after a few months which must be when the lyrics must move from short to long term memory when the problem lessens. It has caused me real concern as I had recently had problems preparing for exams. I chalk it up to age and joke about it but I continue to work hard to learn new lyrics as I understand that exercising the memory improves it.

Unless there is something really wrong (illness or so) it is possible to learn to memorise up to a high age. It depends on interest and method used. How about expressing the lyrics you are learning in mime. As if you were showing a deaf person in movement what you want to say. At the same time ofcourse singing the lines in your head. Maybe that may help you speed up memorising. In the beginning you will find that you come up against spots which you forgot but just go over them again. Do a bit of it every day and you will find that every day you have remembered more.

Edited by Pauline de Snoo
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Hello Robin

Look forward to meeting you in Swaledale. The idea is that I do some workshop(s) on performing on concertina using the ideas that we have just been discussing here and I will adjust to whoever joins in . How to improve performance in all musical aspects will be the main theme.

And maybe a workshop on accompanying songs. It depends on the interest. Jane will ask people and send a mailing I believe beforehand. So you will hear more about it.

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Thanks all for your input, and especially Pauline for the 'movement enhancing memory' theory.

I wonder if you have seen the video of the concertina get-together from last year?

It is interesting to watch Iris Bishop who plays (large Maccann duet) the theme from the Godfather seated with eyes closed and virtually motionless apart from fingers and minimal bellows movement. Then compare this directly with the the chap (forget his name, apologies) playing a rousing version of the Dambusters (on Jeffries duet) which is performed standing, foot tapping etc. with much gusto.

Both are expressive performances, given with energy and flair.

It is interesting that the glazed-over look of the jeffries user is effectively the same as having one's eyes closed. Some of the style difference is directly attributable to the instrument weight and of course the style of music being played.

 

I would say that stillness, shutting the eyes to help visualisation, and cutting out distractions are the greatest aid to memory (both Thelonius Monk and Cecil Taylor do this in their own way). but that learnt movement can help.

 

Incidentally, my piano teacher taught me 'Do not leak' and was never impressed by Liberace. But this last weekend watching Donald Swan playing 'The Gnu' with flourishes of his left hand I could see how the movements reinforced his performance, although he kept the music to hand.

Because lyrics generally go with the music, or the music is written for them, they usually have association and for me are easier to remember than just a peom or play. It is rare that one does not complement the other - Robin Ray commented that Tom Lehrer's song 'The Elements' was one of the hardest as each line had to be learnt parrot-fashion, and breathing is limited.

 

Off to play now; the kids are singing 'I'm a Gnu', and I have to practice concertina out of earshot of the wife during lunch at work. Such is life

 

 

 

Andy Dawson

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Yes Andy. I am myself inclined to cose my eyes when I am concentrating very much and when I play by heart. However I am starting to believe that an audience likes it when a musician communicates also by looking at them. Pietro Valente has inspired me there and the photos he showed me of his and his mother's performance. And singers usually look at the audience as if they are telling their story to them especially. It makes the audience feel part of it maybe.

So I am now getting used to looking at the audience while playing. That too needs practice.

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Right on the money Pauline! The Italians often refer to the eyes as 'beautiful lights' and 'windows to the soul'. I too when very involved with playing or singing have a desire to close my eyes. My beloved voice teacher Elena Nikolaidi would screem that I was dropping a curtin between me and my audience (there were other things she said in Greek on this subject that were....colorful :huh: ).

 

My Dominique is always very aware of the lighting when she performs and will insist that they be adjusted to illuminate her eyes. She believes they have as much communication power as the voice does (been workin' out for her so far ;)) .

Edited by Mark Evans
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