Concertina vs accordion reeds

[RAc]

2 hours ago, Jim2010 said:

You guys are making the Crane system more and more appealing the farther you go with this.

 

well, maybe. Then again: there are also many arguments in favor of all of the other layouts. I tend to get more and more weary about comparing layouts. There is no such thing as "the universal perfect" instrument. If there was, there'd be no other layout, period. It's more important to get started on any system than spending hours and hours discussing back and forth the respective pros and cons.

 

I do feel comfortable with the Crane right now, but if I had started on another system, I'd most probably be as proficient (or unproficient, doesn't matter how you look at it) on that system as I am on the Crane now.

 

The usual piece of advice if you're insecure is this: Print out each layout in +-1:1 size on regular copier paper and do some "air playing" on that paper. It'll give you a rough idea of what your brain will expect when it comes to the "real thing." Then purchase an instrument with the layout that appeals the most to you. If it still doesn't feel right for you, it isn't. Any reputable dealer will give you an option to exchange the instrument for something else with bearable loss.

 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by RAc

[Jim2010]

1 hour ago, RAc said:

 

...there are also many arguments in favor of all of the other layouts. I tend to get more and more weary about comparing layouts. There is no such thing as "the universal perfect" instrument. If there was, there'd be no other layout, period. It's more important to get started on any system than spending hours and hours discussing back and forth the respective pros and cons.

 

 

Thanks, RAc. Good advice.

[Łukasz Martynowicz]

9 hours ago, Little John said:

 

An illustration might help. There are three natural notes ("white" notes on a piano) in each row (or arc) and there are three corresponding chord shapes. In the attached chart:

 

Top left shows how D minor, G major and C major have the same shape, based on the fourth column from the left.

Bottom left shows how moving your finger to the outer column* of accidentals ("black" notes) changes major to minor and vice versa for the same three chords.

Top right show how the three major chords in the key of F have similar shapes, based on the second column from the left.

Bottom right shows that a few variations are possible. This is my favourite form of C major.

 

Chords based on the middle column follow similar patterns. So pretty well all chords follow one of three basic patterns, the variations being that the outer columns are used when "black" notes are required.

 

LJ

 

* Or using your little finger, as I do for that column.

 

Crane chord shapes.pdf 65.5 kB · 17 downloads

 

 

Thanks, that was informative. From a perspective of a Hayden player I would say that Crane system is half way there: it is fairly logical within an octave and chords aren’t „all over the place”. It has some resemblance to 3-row variants of accordion B- and C-systems in that you have different but limited shapes of chords depending on row of the root note. On the Crane however it all goes out the window when you go up an octave - same chord octave higher is fingered entirely differently.

 

@RAc while it is true what you say about „music theory coming alive” in this example, it is also true that in order to construct chords on a Crane one has to already know music theory and how to construct  every chord he wishes to play. That is not the case on isomorphic keyboards: the layout itself teaches you theory! (That of course includes the simplest isomorphic layout of them all - bleached and leveled, entirely linear version of piano keyboard:) )That is what I find most usefull about them - all you need to know to play a chord is it’s universal shape and root note. You get all other information directly from your fingers. 

Edited April 30, 2020 by Łukasz Martynowicz

[Daniel Hersh]

15 minutes ago, Łukasz Martynowicz said:

Thanks, that was informative. From a perspective of a Hayden player I would say that Crane system is half way there: it is fairly logical within an octave and chords aren’t „all over the place”. It has some resemblance to 3-row variants of accordion B- and C-systems in that you have different but limited shapes of chords depending on row of the root note. On the Crane however it all goes out the window when you go up an octave - same chord octave higher is fingered entirely differently.

 

@RAc while it is true what you say about „music theory coming alive” in this example, it is also true that in order to construct chords on a Crane one has to already know music theory and how to construct  every chord he wishes to play. That is not the case on isomorphic keyboards: the layout itself teaches you theory! (That of course includes the simplest isomorphic layout of them all - bleached and leveled, entirely linear version of piano keyboard:) )That is what I find most usefull about them - all you need to know to play a chord is it’s universal shape and root note. You get all other information directly from your fingers. 

 

This is an interesting discussion.  I know music theory, and I play piano and piano accordion as well as Crane and Anglo (and formerly Hayden, which I can still play to some extent).    One of the reasons I like Crane is that it reminds me of a piano keyboard, with the natural notes (white keys on piano) in one area (the central rows) and accidentals (black keys on piano) in a different area nearby (the outer rows).  On Hayden, I never quite got used to the fact that going along each row gives you a whole-tone scale (e.g. C D E F# G# etc.) which isn't like any other instrument I play or know about.  But as a first instrument for someone who knows no theory, Hayden might be easier to learn than Crane.

[Wolf Molkentin]

1 hour ago, Daniel Hersh said:

One of the reasons I like Crane is that it reminds me of a piano keyboard, with the natural notes (white keys on piano) in one area (the central rows) and accidentals (black keys on piano) in a different area nearby (the outer rows).

the same is true for me, and of course includes the ancestor of the Crane: Charles Wheatstone‘s „English“ concertina, as well ?