Music for 'Old Concertina Reel' in C/G?

[larryjhs]

Noel Hill and Tony McMahon played 'the Old Concertina Reel on  I gCnoc Na Graí .  It's a great tune.  But I've only been able to find music online for it in the key of D.  Does anyone have it in G? or C -- I'm not great at music theory or transposition. I assume Noel Hill was playing a D/G concertina on the recording.    Or am I making some error that I can't get my head around musically ie how to play it in G.

Larry

[paaudio]

a "G" version is available here: (5th version of the collection) https://thesession.org/tunes/18

 

[Bill N]

It can be played in D on a 30 button C/G concertina by playing "across the rows" and using the 3rd row for C#.  I play both a G/D and a C/G and find that reels are often easier to play at speed across the rows than in the home key row.

[Peter Laban]

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Quote

I assume Noel Hill was playing a D/G concertina on the recording.

 

 

Have a look:

 

 

Edited January 22, 2020 by Peter Laban

[John, Wexford]

In this recording, Noel Hill is playing an A? / E? concertina, which is the same as saying that he is playing an E? version of a G / D concertina.

[John, Wexford]

On 1/22/2020 at 7:39 AM, paaudio said:

a "G" version is available here: (5th version of the collection) https://thesession.org/tunes/18

 

 

There's actually 2 different versions of the "Concertina Reel."

 

There's the standard version from thesession.org, which has simply been transposed up from D to G, and then there's the version, as transcribed by Pat Mitchell, and which is included both in his seminal book "The Dance Music of Willie Clancy", and on his solo LP album, from 1976, entitled "Pat Mitchell - Uilleann Pipes."

 

You can listen to a 20 second clip here on Apple Music Preview https://music.apple.com/us/album/uilleann-pipes/1280455332

 

Pat is playing on a flat set of pipes, which I think are pitched in B, so this short clip should be coming out in the key of E.

[LateToTheGame]

On 1/22/2020 at 8:31 AM, John, Wexford said:

In this recording, Noel Hill is playing an A? / E? concertina, which is the same as saying that he is playing an E? version of a G / D concertina.

I read this as not A/E but A something or other symbol I don't understand and E something or other symbol I don't understand LOL.  What that does that mean? I am interested.     

 

I was told he was playing a Bb/F, which would correspond with an A#/E# if that is what those symbols mean. 

Edited February 2, 2020 by LateToTheGame
I remembered something to add which might be relevant

[Notemaker]

On 2/1/2020 at 6:18 PM, LateToTheGame said:

I read this as not A/E but A something or other symbol I don't understand and E something or other symbol I don't understand LOL.  What that does that mean? I am interested.     

 

I was told he was playing a Bb/F, which would correspond with an A#/E# if that is what those symbols mean. 

Well his partner plays/used play on a  D / D# Accordion, so using the Eb Anglo Tina, either sort fits in well with that plan.

As to Eb V D#, I think there would have to be a serious re-tuning involved there someplace.

The symbol you wonder about means 'Flat' so A flat  / E flat, or Ab / Eb.

 

Edited February 3, 2020 by Notemaker
Missing comment.

[John, Wexford]

I'm not quite sure how to reply to your post, so please forgive me, if my reply seems somewhat simplistic.

 

First off, I have to say that it seems to me that all Anglo concertinas appear to have 2 names; the "Technical" name or fully qualified name, (to pinch a term from the internet), or the "Nickname", which does rather lead to lots of confusion.

 

So a technical name for a concertina might be "C/G", (the names of the rows), but I suppose it is now universally accepted that this is actually really a concert pitch, or "D" concertina.

 

So, an informal rule of thumb might then be to: nudge the first note of the 2-note designation of the concertina up by one note to give the concertina it's nickname.

 

On that basis, then, a C/G concertina is a D or concert pitch instrument; a Bb/F concertina plays in C. It gets a little bit confusing, however, when you look at an instrument like C#/G#, but, if you allow that another name for C# is Db (or to give it it’s more correct musical symbol D?) and that G# is also Ab, then another name for C#/G# is Db/Ab – one note up from Db then is Eb, and so, a C#/G# is "informally" also known as an Eb concertina. There has been a marked trend towards playing in Eb in recent years. And so then the Ab/Eb concertina is pretty much seen then as the Bb concertina.

 

 

I want to change direction here for a bit.

 

 

So what actual fingers do you actually use on a C/G instrument? You can get every note from E on the first line of the stave to b' on the 2nd space above the stave, with 4 notes available as either press or draw, (being B, c, d', and e'), with only two fingers on each side. The only notes out of range therefore are D and F#, (possibly C# also), but it is helpful to keep the LHS pinky finger hovering over the F#/D button and the ring finger over the draw D note, so this is not really an inconvenience.

 

That all sounds and looks great, until you tackle tunes like Lady Anne Montgomery or The Lads of Laois or Denis Langtot's, all reels, where there are fairly intricate note combinations that require to be done with the weakest 3^rd and 4^th fingers on the LHS, and usually at speed, especially so if you are not left-handed. There is no doubt, but that this is difficult. So, wouldn't it be great if there was some system out there, which would transfer all the low notes up to the strongest fingers on the LHS and RHS, and there is - it is the lower-pitched G/D system. But there is a price to pay for transferring up the lower notes to your stronger fingers on both sides – the high notes now become somewhat more difficult to ornament, simply because there are no further buttons with which to do simple graces and rolls, and you now have to do all these graces and rolls with your weakest fingers on your RHS. So, it’s sort of a “six of one”, and a “half a dozen of the other” situation.

So, if the G/D concertina could be seen somewhat as a solution for being able to play low notes more easily, than on a concert pitch concertina, the Ab/Eb is the corresponding solution for playing in Eb, and this is what I was alluding to, in my previous post.

Sorry for being so wordy, but I hope this is of some help to you. If you have any other query on these different systems, you can reply in this thread or dm me.