Anglo E/F key: annoying click

[Carola]

Hi all.

 

I don't know the names of all the parts, so I'll do my best to describe this problem. I'm new to Anglo, but have done minor adjustments on EC, and I'm not afraid to use a screwdriver.

 

I've had this Lachenal less than 2 months and it suddenly started clicking when the E/F pad claps back onto the wood surface inside. The pad is missing a sliver on the rim about 1/4" x 1/16", so I suspect that's the issue. I just watched M. Pierson's "Concertina Pad Replacement" videos and those are very helpful.

 

 

What are the other pieces called, the brown disc over the white pad and the cylindrical drum on the end on the wire? Should I replace all three pieces when I do this repair? I think I can get these replacement parts from the seller -- not ready to make my own like Mr. Pierson does.

 

Last Q: I unscrewed the end off the hexagonal frame, but was uncertain of separating the fretted end from the section that holds the main works -- inexperience makes me cautious. Is there a video that shows how to do that disassembly? (I imagine it's simple to do/describe.) 

 

I live in Sacramento, and Kline's Music is NG for repair. The nearest seems to be Smythe's Accordions in Oakland, but I'd rather not add three hours of drive time to this. Plus -- big fan of DIY.

 

Thanks for any help!

 

--carol

[Sunbeamer]

Hello, 

I’m not quite sure what to advise you , but you sound like you would certainly find Dave Elliott’s concertina manual very useful.

 

http://www.concertina-repair.org.uk/page11.html

 

Dave does a workshop at the WCCP get togethers , always helpful and interesting.

good luck on your Anglo journey!

[alex_holden]

The photo is very small, but that looks like the pad was punched out badly. It might cause a leak if the missing part is too close to the edge of the hole but it shouldn't cause a clicking noise.

 

There's usually a screw on the bottom of the action board that goes through the box into the handrail, if you take that out the box should separate into two halves.

[Carola]

Thank you, SB -- ordered the book!

 

And thanks, Alex. There doesn't seem to be any leak, and I only noticed the irregular pad shape when the clicking started. I searched on clicking in this forum and didn't find anything, so I'm still open to suggestions on how to quiet down that key. Might the pad be brittle and still in need of replacement?

 

Thanks, guys. I really appreciate the help.

 

--c

Edited December 3, 2019 by Carola
additions

[gcoover]

Hi Carola, welcome to cnet! A place that is always informative and entertaining.

 

Have you checked to see if the lever arm (after it comes through the button) is hitting the wooden end when you let go of the button and the pad comes to rest? Sometimes new pads are thinner and that makes the button rise up a little taller. If that's the case, you can find the offending spot and perhaps remove a bit of wood underneath. I had to do this with one of my instruments several years ago since I didn't want to re-do all the pads.

 

Or, the little felt bushing in the hole in the button where the lever arm goes through might have rotated (or come loose, or fallen out) allowing the lever and button to "click".

Gary 

[Chris Ghent]

Things to investigate include; a missing cloth bushing in the button where the lever passes through it, a missing bush under the button, and wear in the joint between lever and post. As Alex says, that discrepancy in the lad is not your noise. 

[Carola]

Thanks for the welcome and for more information. I popped the hood and found some bushings inside a couple of keys falling out so i fixed those (thanks, Chris), but still can't find what's causing the click. It's not the lever arm hitting the wood (thanks, Gary). It's not the pad itself -- seems fine. Could it be a bent arm or wandering spring? I'll be meeting some folks soon who might enjoy a mystery.

 

Thanks again -- I'll try again tomorrow.

 

--carol

[Frank Edgley]

Lachenals are notorious for their noisy mechanisms. It could be one of several reasons. It could be that if the bushing is missing from the hole in the button, it may cause a click. If the mechanism is raising too high it may be that the mechanism id hitting the inside of the wooden grill. If the bushings under the button is missing, it would cause a click. If there is insufficient strength from the spring, it may cause the lever itself to cause a click with the fulcrum, as the lever would lose contact with the fulcrum momentarily and when the arm reingages with the fulcrum there will be a click.

[Carola]

Thanks, Frank. I took another look and the problem seems to be the spring. it's loose and a bit bent so the lever arm has too much wiggle room. (The pad lands off-center from the hole, but i still get notes.) Is replacing the spring possible for me to do or should I take it to an expert?

 

Just for this week I'll work on learning to love the click. Or play the EC.

[Tiposx]

As you are competent to remove the endplate you will have no trouble replacing the spring. They are made in two types - left handed and r/h. I can never work out which is which so I buy both.  Just a bit of wiggling of levers and buttons is all it takes. I don't know where you would buy the springs from in your country though.

[Don Taylor]

You could try swapping the problem spring for one on the lever of a button that you rarely use.

[Carola]

Thanks, Tiposx -- glad to hear it. And thanks for more info re handedness. 

 

And Don -- great suggestion! This box has two extra keys (32 not counting air), and that right hand one on the far end can only be heard by dogs. 

[d.elliott]

Carola,

 

Is the click audible, or more something you feel? or perhaps both?

 

One thing you might like to check is if the bushing in the key is too tightly packed on the end of the lever arm. If it is too tight then the very necessary rock of the key on the arm will be missing or restricted. Pushing of the key down may be pushing the arm down in the pivot post rather than causing it to swing  easily around the pivot point.  It can also cause the key to bind in its hole in the action box cover and also the key's guide peg (under the bottom of the key body) to bind in the small guide hole in the action plate (what the pivots are fixed into). 

 

The last observation I would make is that the key travel distance is supposed to be 1/8th inch (3.2 mm) if this is excessive then the guide pegs can be nearly out of their guide holes and the  keys may be starting to bind on the lever arms.  Travel distance is the distance between the key top (pad closed) and the key top (key full down). it should be the same for all keys, and all keys should be of an even height (except perhaps the wind key and a drone key which may be a bit higher)

 

Remember: fault finding as as much fun as playing, or maybe not.

 

Dave

[Carola]

Hi Dave

 

The click is audible. If i tap the key lightly (not pressing down to make a note) it's metallic -- different from the small dull thud other keys make. The key was fine for the first several weeks -- it just started up out of nowhere.

 

I ordered your book from Hobgoblin; it may arrive tomorrow. Once i get it and learn more about the mechanics, I'll dive in again. And you're right -- this is kind of fun. I hope to post positive results sooner or later.

 

Thanks!

 

--carol

[Howard Mitchell]

The lever arm passes through a hole in the button. The hole should have a felt bush, like a felt tube, which the end of the arm goes through. If you’re getting a metallic sound when you tap the button without playing a note it’s possible that the felt bush has come out of the hole.  If you’re lucky the piece of felt may be in the action box and can be replaced.

 

Mitch

 

[Carola]

Hi Howard

 

Someone along the way replaced felt bushing with cloth bits. I "fixed" that particular key, but will get some proper felt bushing when I know what I'm doing. Still waiting on Dave Elliot's repair book to arrive -- I'll find out more soon.

 

Thanks!

 

--c

[alex_holden]

3 hours ago, Carola said:

Someone along the way replaced felt bushing with cloth bits. I "fixed" that particular key, but will get some proper felt bushing when I know what I'm doing. Still waiting on Dave Elliot's repair book to arrive -- I'll find out more soon.

 

It is usually a wool cloth that has been 'fulled', so it looks like felt on the surface but has a woven structure that prevents it falling apart.

[d.elliott]

It's woven felt not needle felt cut on the bias (45 deg to the weft and weave) like is used by the piano repair community, but the thin stuff! it is a form of light weight baize.but thinner than would be used on a pool table.

 

Dave