mark Posted March 15, 2005 Share Posted March 15, 2005 Good Day, has anyone experienced a change in pitch due to a fluctuation in temperature or humidity, could either of these cause a change? My wife and I sat down to play some tunes, after she had tund her stringed instrument with an electronic tuner, we noticed that the concertina was noticably flat across all notes. I got my other tina and noticed that it was also a bit flat. One of the instruments is new and the other is an older instrument. Over a 48 hour period we had a significant change in temp and humidity. Any thoughts? Thanks Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lildogturpy Posted March 15, 2005 Share Posted March 15, 2005 Not sure if temperature would do that although I would imagine it would change the flexibility of the steel which might affect it's vibration. I do know (after the St Patrick's Day Parade) that in the cold the brass reed shoe and the steel reed contract at different rates and start to buzz or just not play. Problem disappears again when things warm up. I acquired my Concertina last July and checked it several times against an electronic tuner and it was dead on. More recently it seems to be hovering just sharp across all notes, not just the odd one or two. Haven't checked it at too many different temperatures though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_mchale Posted March 15, 2005 Share Posted March 15, 2005 Good Day, has anyone experienced a change in pitch due to a fluctuation in temperature or humidity, could either of these cause a change? My wife and I sat down to play some tunes, after she had tund her stringed instrument with an electronic tuner, we noticed that the concertina was noticably flat across all notes. I got my other tina and noticed that it was also a bit flat. One of the instruments is new and the other is an older instrument. Over a 48 hour period we had a significant change in temp and humidity. Any thoughts? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Theoretically I imagine a change in temperature could change the tuning of an instrument, at least to a small degree. Essentially as the reeds get colder they will shrink slightly and as they get warmer they will expand. That being said the effect is rather small (at the size of reeds, I imagine smaller than could easily be measured). A slightly smaller reed should produce a slightly higher pitch... but again I am not sure the difference would be large enough to notice. -- Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted March 15, 2005 Share Posted March 15, 2005 ...after she had tund her stringed instrument with an electronic tuner, we noticed that the concertina was noticably flat across all notes. I got my other tina and noticed that it was also a bit flat. ... Any thoughts?<{POST_SNAPBACK}> One thought, in particular: It ain't the concertinas. Humidity won't change steel, and temperature over that range won't change it enough to matter. At least as significant is that if the concertinas are still in tune with themselves, that would imply that all reeds shifted by the same amount, and since they're all contoured differently, I don't think there's any way that could happen. While it seems equally unlikely that an electronic tuner would go off pitch, it seems much more likely to me that one device would go off than that 40 or more reeds would all do so, and all in the same proportion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Evans Posted March 15, 2005 Share Posted March 15, 2005 Mark, check the calibration on your tuner. The one I have is adjustable. One bump of the wrong button and I can be tuning to an A-440 that is now A-448. Found that out the hard way on my poor banjo...twag! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilary Posted March 15, 2005 Share Posted March 15, 2005 Mark - I definately agree with Mark Evans, the problem is most likely the electronic tuner. We used one once to test the tuning on a wooden whistle before buying. The tuner said 'in tune'. It also said a perfect (can't remember the exact numbers) D for a dissonance played on a piano accordian! Best bet is to throw the tuner away and tune the stringed to the concertina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spindizzy Posted March 15, 2005 Share Posted March 15, 2005 Mark, check the calibration on your tuner. The one I have is adjustable. One bump of the wrong button and I can be tuning to an A-440 that is now A-448. Found that out the hard way on my poor banjo...twag! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Been there ... done that.... though it wasn't a banjo and "twag" is far more expressive ! Chris J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Evans Posted March 15, 2005 Share Posted March 15, 2005 Yep, I think I hate tuners. At a bluegrass/old time jam I attend once in a while there is this mandolin player, yes, yes I know. He always wants to make a big deal of having to tune to my box. "Lets just see what my tuner says". Privately, I don't think he can tune by ear and needs the visual. It certainly doesn't bother him when later he's beaten that poor instrument out of tune that he's by himself in a land beyond the pale. My Morse is dead on by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Your horse is dead, Mark? Oh oh no, your Morse. If it was in the hospital, we would code it. For emergency response. Hey, Morse code. Too too late at night for this chick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 My Morse is dead on by the way.Your horse is dead, Mark?Oh oh no, your Morse.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, no, Helen. He said his Morse is dead on, which means it did not die off. (Is that like Danish, where to "lock up" (word for word translation) means to "unlock"? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Evans Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Oye, me noggin', dat's too much fer me dis time a marnin'. Coffee. Tina is alive an' well. Aquited herself well at session last night. The banjo player, back in good spirits was sportin' an octave mandolin. Much more enjoyable tone, but Tina had to be restrained on several jigs so's she would not be accused of being a "honker" again. Mandola or whatever is a whisperer...Grrr. No electronic tuners in sight by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 I am no expert, Mark, but I believe an octave mandolin and a mandola are two different species. I have an octave mandolin, by the way, and love the lower tones. Glad tina is alive and well and whalin' away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 I believe an octave mandolin and a mandola are two different species.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Depends which side of the Atlantic you are on ! There can be two kinds of mandola in a mandolin orchestra, the tenor mandola (tuned like a viola, a fifth down from a mandolin), and the octave mandola (tuned an octave below a mandolin). In Ireland people are unfamiliar with the tenor mandola, but play the octave mandola, usually calling it simply a "mandola", whilst in the U.S. the tenor mandola is the one commonly encounterd, and called "mandola", whilst the more recently introduced Irish-style instrument is called an "octave mandolin". Though some people seem to confuse it with the "Irish bouzouki" ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_mchale Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 (edited) I believe an octave mandolin and a mandola are two different species.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Depends which side of the Atlantic you are on ! There can be two kinds of mandola in a mandolin orchestra, the tenor mandola (tuned like a viola, a fifth down from a mandolin), and the octave mandola (tuned an octave below a mandolin). In Ireland people are unfamiliar with the tenor mandola, but play the octave mandola, usually calling it simply a "mandola", whilst in the U.S. the tenor mandola is the one commonly encounterd, and called "mandola", whilst the more recently introduced Irish-style instrument is called an "octave mandolin". Though some people seem to confuse it with the "Irish bouzouki" ! Sigh... I can't believe that there are still people who get the Octave Mandolin mixed up with Bouzouki... they are completely different instruments that just sound almost identical . Ok.. Just remember people the Bouzouki is the one with the long neck... or is that the Octave Mandolin... er.. or maybe its the Mandola... Confusedly.... -- Bill Edited March 16, 2005 by bill_mchale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Sigh... I can't believe that there are still people who get the Octave Mandolin mixed up with Bouzouki... they are completely different instruments that just sound almost identical . Ok.. Just remember people the Bouzouki is the one with the long neck... or is that the Octave Mandolin... er.. or maybe its the Mandola... Confusedly.... -- Bill <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Bill, I wouldn't blame anybody for being confused about them, indeed it can be very hard to draw the line in Ireland, where most bouzouki players use unison strings (not octaves), short-scale bouzoukis are popular and some people use EADG tuning. So does that make it a big mandola, or a short bouzouki ? And they expect me to tell them what strings to use ! Actually, therein may lie the real difference ! Bouzouki strings are usually thinner than mandola ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted March 16, 2005 Author Share Posted March 16, 2005 Well, Mark and Hilary were right on, it was the tuner. Someone had managed to get it up to 447! It didn't make sense to me that two tinas would go out exactly the same but I never thought to check the tuner. Thank You All so much, what a great community this is! Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Evans Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Glad it worked out Mark. I never trust electronics. In fact the technichian who services our piano here tunes it by ear...lovely job too. Stephen and Bill, I'm totally confused. This instrument the fella had sported a very long neck (made by Weber) and he had it capoed up two frets. The body was so shallow on it that I thought it was an old Flat Iron. Pretty piece of maple and mahogony but zero volume and projection. Had to really take it easy on da buttons an' bellows. Felt I was walkin' on egg shells. That hasn't been my experience with mandolins or bouzoki before. Again, Grrr! Helen you continue to suprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 This instrument the fella had sported a very long neck (made by Weber) and he had it capoed up two frets. The body was so shallow on it that I thought it was an old Flat Iron. Pretty piece of maple and mahogony but zero volume and projection.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> It sounds like he may be stringing a bouzouki as a mandola ("octave mandolin"), using the capo to shorten the scale length. The Flat Iron style of bouzouki has never been popular in Ireland, the body is much too shallow (and so is the sound), alright for the gentle accompaniment of a song, but not capable of the depth of sound required for backing tunes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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