new spring

[wunks]

Take heart Tinker- it- your-selfers!   I just replaced my first broken spring with a safety pin modification and didn't lose an eye or otherwise bloody myself...?  If I can manage it, so can you!

 

The new spring is slightly stiffer but not annoyingly so.....The affected note is also noticeably louder and I don't know why this would be ....?  I thought I was saving some money but now I'm thinking I might need a whole new set...?   anyway, I'm declaring victory and moving on....

Edited November 10, 2019 by wunks
delete non-relevant info.

[Frank Edgley]

Perhaps it is louder because the pad is opening higher.....possibly (I don't know because I can't see it) the stronger spring is messing with the fulcrum post. Try a different safety pin...perhaps one of brass. or reduce the strength by holding the coil using needle0nose pliers and bending the arms.

[wunks]

24 minutes ago, Frank Edgley said:

Perhaps it is louder because the pad is opening higher.....possibly (I don't know because I can't see it) the stronger spring is messing with the fulcrum post. Try a different safety pin...perhaps one of brass. or reduce the strength by holding the coil using needle0nose pliers and bending the arms.

 

That's the only reason I could think of other than that the remaining springs are weak with time and the instrument would benefit from replacing them all.  It's over 100 years old after all!  I'm going to let it play in for a while and see what happens.  I set the spring arm at a lower angle than the originals as it was a bit stiffer and it didn't appear to be affecting the post.  I'm not sure the lower end of the spring seated all the way into it's tiny anchor hole however.  That could be it.  Thank you Frank.

[Wolf Molkentin]

19 minutes ago, wunks said:

 

That's the only reason I could think of other than that the remaining springs are weak with time and the instrument would benefit from replacing them all.  It's over 100 years old after all!  I'm going to let it play in for a while and see what happens.  I set the spring arm at a lower angle than the originals as it was a bit stiffer and it didn't appear to be affecting the post.  I'm not sure the lower end of the spring seated all the way into it's tiny anchor hole however.  That could be it.  Thank you Frank.

 

you could just replace one more spring, in order to verify if it would be to a similar result...

[wunks]

7 minutes ago, Wolf Molkentin said:

 

you could just replace one more spring, in order to verify if it would be to a similar result...

 

I suspect I will need to soon at any rate as this first failure may be a harbinger of springs to come...?  Is an increase in volume with new springs a thing? 

[Wolf Molkentin]

2 minutes ago, wunks said:

Is an increase in volume with new springs a thing?

 

not to my - admittedly limited - knowledge ?

[d.elliott]

We often get springs made from safety pins, they work but they are usually very strong and need big holes in the action plate to anchor them. I would always fit proper springs, less overall damage and less chance of fouling adjacent action components

[Chris Ghent]

I have found a couple of instruments with buttons protruding further than they should, to the point the spigot at the bottom was coming out of the actionboard guide hole. In both cases the post was coming out of the actionboard because a safety pin had been used as a replacement spring. If it is stronger than the springs around it, fine, play the gig, but replace it as soon as possible. You can also use the spring from a key you never use and put tape under the padhole from the key that now has no spring so it doesn’t leak while you source another spring.

[wunks]

On 11/12/2019 at 3:56 AM, Chris Ghent said:

I have found a couple of instruments with buttons protruding further than they should, to the point the spigot at the bottom was coming out of the actionboard guide hole. In both cases the post was coming out of the actionboard because a safety pin had been used as a replacement spring. If it is stronger than the springs around it, fine, play the gig, but replace it as soon as possible. You can also use the spring from a key you never use and put tape under the padhole from the key that now has no spring so it doesn’t leak while you source another spring.

I don't seem to be having these particular problems and after playing it in I don't notice it at all.  Perhaps a good idea would be to order a few spares.  Are they generally Identical for any given instrument?

[wunks]

On 11/11/2019 at 10:10 AM, Frank Edgley said:

Perhaps it is louder because the pad is opening higher.....possibly (I don't know because I can't see it) the stronger spring is messing with the fulcrum post. Try a different safety pin...perhaps one of brass. or reduce the strength by holding the coil using needle0nose pliers and bending the arms.

 

I did lower the angle of the spring, and the thought occurs to me that maybe the slight increase in volume ( and clarity) is due to the pad being closer rather than further from the hole, a sort of Venturi effect.  Is that possible?

[d.elliott]

The issue that Chris is referring to  is not a instant result of using a overly strong spring substitute, but over time the pivot post 'tang' can back out of the action plate. I once saw it happen after a full re-spring with good 'tina springs, about ten posts started to extract themselves. Causing the key heights to rise.

 

Dave

[Chris Ghent]

Quite right Dave, I omitted the time element. 

[SteveS]

On 11/14/2019 at 6:12 PM, d.elliott said:

The issue that Chris is referring to  is not a instant result of using a overly strong spring substitute, but over time the pivot post 'tang' can back out of the action plate. I once saw it happen after a full re-spring with good 'tina springs, about ten posts started to extract themselves. Causing the key heights to rise.

Yup seen that too.

I currently have a 'tina in my resto pile where several springs have been switched for safety pins - inevitably the pivot posts have backed out of their slots.  I've disconnected the springs while the instrument awaits restoration.