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Gail_Smith

replacing long thin woodscrews holding thumb and finger plates on ediophone - where can i get them?

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I'm having trouble finding suitable woodscrews for replacing those  that hold the plates on to my ediophone. They go through the plate or thumbstrap, down through a wooden post (post is about 13mm long) and then through - and out the other side even - the wooden plate through which all the valve holes are cut out.. Multiple repairs and over the years (all of which require these screws to be removed), and some rusting on the screws has resulted in damage to the heads. The  "slot" at the top of the screws are now damaged and so its increasiungly difficult to remove and replace them. I suspect the use of the "wrong size" of screwdriver has also contributed  (I have no idea what the "right size" would be... presumably the one Mr. Lachenal used in his workshop ). 

Anybody got any ideas where I can get x4 replacement screws?  My internet searches have been unsuccessful - but maybe I am not using the right keywords. 

 

Approx

1 mm diameter

25 mm long

thread on the bottom 12 mm

countersunk

 

I would also like to replace the shorter screws holding the thumbstrap and finger unit  in place. 

thank you

Gail

 

 

Edited by Gail_Smith
clarity and typo

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I once replaced the long screws with machine screws, by carefully drilling through the soundboard, in order to really secure the thumb straps.

 

Worked really well ever since... (and I wouldn't hesitate to do the same with other instruments in case of any issues with the thumbstraps as well).

 

Best wishes - 🐺

Edited by Wolf Molkentin
typo removed at Don's hint

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2 hours ago, Wolf Molkentin said:

and I wouldn't do the same

Do you really mean wouldn't or is that a typo?

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5 minutes ago, Don Taylor said:

Do you really mean wouldn't or is that a typo?

 

thank you, of course you're right, that's a typo (which I'm going to edit know), whatever the reason... 😔

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The member called Old Nickilby sent me some of those screws a few years ago and I think from what he said he has more. You could also get a blob of silver solder placed on top of the old screw and the head and slot reshaped. If you find the wood the screws thread into is worn out, Wolf’s suggestion is a good one. I have replaced the setup in a couple of instruments with a narrow solid brass pillar inside the action box in place of the wooden spacer and short countersunk machine screws entering it from the strap plate and from under the soundboard. You can also pull the same trick with the short screws by making up a brass plate to sit under the end. 10BA is a reasonable size. 

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I will try the machine screw option first, and the second (your suggestion of a post, screwing into both ends) if I split the wooden post while installing the machine screws.  A nylon (rather than brass) post looks like an option. 

 

I hope to be replacing other smaller  (rusted) screws at the same time -  it looks like  I will be having Pozidrive heads to everything eventually.  I'm sure Mr. Lachenal - as an engineer - would approve of Pozidrive  screws, and wish he had invented them. 

 

Thank you so much, both of you, for your really helpful suggestions. 

Gail

 

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36 minutes ago, Gail_Smith said:

I hope to be replacing other smaller  (rusted) screws at the same time -  it looks like  I will be having Pozidrive heads to everything eventually.  I'm sure Mr. Lachenal - as an engineer - would approve of Pozidrive  screws, and wish he had invented them. 

 

I suggest not using Pozidrive screws - speaking as a restorer, they often round off rendering them impossible to remove with out having to drill them out - and they require access to a proper Pozidrive screwdriver.  It also means carrying at least 2 screwdrivers in a repair kit.

Always use slotted head screws - as used traditionally by makers - even modern makers use slotted head screws and bolts.

I doubt Lachenal would have used Pozidrive screws even if he had had access to them.

Edited by SteveS
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3 hours ago, Gail_Smith said:

Hm - but I can't find slot-head screws that are small enough. 

Have you approached any of the makers?

eg. Steve Dickinson (Wheatstone), Wim Wakker (Wakker concertinas), Colin Dipper.

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An Ebay search of "Nettlefolds slotted wood screws" also turns up quite a few potential options.....

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thanks !  Not easy to figure out what the best search terms  for an internet search are. I spent a lot of time on model-making and dolls house websites.  

 

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On 10/30/2019 at 10:09 PM, Gail_Smith said:

 

I will try the machine screw option first, and the second (your suggestion of a post, screwing into both ends) if I split the wooden post while installing the machine screws.  A nylon (rather than brass) post looks like an option. 

 

I hope to be replacing other smaller  (rusted) screws at the same time -  it looks like  I will be having Pozidrive heads to everything eventually.  I'm sure Mr. Lachenal - as an engineer - would approve of Pozidrive  screws, and wish he had invented them. 

 

Thank you so much, both of you, for your really helpful suggestions. 

Gail

 

Machine screws only work with a machined thread. If you are putting a screw into wood you would be best to use a tapered wood screw. That said, I would expect a small wooden post to split if you put a screw into the end of it. Nylon would be less likely to have issues. Posidrive screws are not appropriate for aesthetic reasons but it is your concertina. Do lots of research before you do anything. 

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Slot headed screws are the work of the devil.

 

He invented them to ensure that the screwdriver slips out of the screw and gouges a hole in the wood or scratches the metal end.  The wielder of the screwdriver then looses their mind and wreaks havoc on everyone and everything around them.

 

Net result: one more concertina player goes to hell.

 

Just sayin'

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I have a slack handful The original screws were much thinner than anything you can get, even what Chris got from Nick. I also have some of those. Some times you need to open up the hole in the pillar as it should be a clearance hole over he screw thread. The finger rest screws were slightly shorter and lighter than the thumb strap screws. Even if you have to clear the support pillars it is not a long job unless you have the remnant of sheared screw burred deep in the wood work. Make contact and see if we can arrange for you to visit me and I can do the job whilst you wait. Is it Just the thumb screws? my post code is S35 0FH.

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Thank you to everyone for your help on this. I now have a workable concertina again. 

I eventually used the 1" woodscrews kindly sent to me by a member of this forum. Thanks !

They are a little thicker than the originals, but that will help them stay put. They have gone in OK and don't seem to have damaged the posts, and I decided to live with the difference in length between the thumb and finger screws.

If they had failed I would have used the machine screws, nuts and washers. 

 

what a helpful forum !

Hope you are well Dave. 

Gail

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The originals were 1" x (and 7/8" x) No. 1 (raised countersunk-headed) screws, but they haven't been made in something like 100 years!

 

The best available alternatives are (slightly thicker) 1" x No.2 (flat countersunk-headed) screws which (though they too haven't been made in a long time) can still be got from old stock, and are available (in packs of 25 screws) on eBay:  25 x NETTLEFOLDS 1" x 2 STEEL COUNTERSUNK SLOTTED HEAD WOOD SCREWS NOS SCREW

 

Intriguingly, when I was talking to direct descendants of Louis Lachenal (who was a "small screw and piano rivet maker" before he made concertinas), I was told that Nettlefold (who founded the firm that eventually became GKN) had been his apprentice.

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