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Isel

WTB C air button

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Not a mistake.

 

Want to be convinced to install an air button in Hayden duet.:ph34r:

 

Context: when every inch is gold

Edited by Isel

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I don't understand what you want.

 

My Beaumont has a rather weak air button in the right-hand bar.  I rarely use it except to compress the bellows before putting it in its box.  I could just use a regular button instead.  Maybe I am missing something about the use of air buttons on a Hayden but it is not like an Anglo when you sometimes need to use the air button to manage the bellows.

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Sorry because my question wasn't stated properly Don.

 

The question is not to choose between several types of air buttons. Instead is a " to be or not to be" question :)

As far as a I have read, there is an amount of concertinas lacking air button, air lever or whichever air releasing device. 

Thinking about a 6 1/4 Hayden duet, where  packaging the keys you'd like to include could be more than tricky, I consider perhaps to install  an air button wouldn't be a priority.

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2 hours ago, Isel said:

The question is ... a " to be or not to be" question :)

 

I play mostly English, though a bit with duets (mostly Crane).  I have some instruments with air buttons or levers and some without.  The only times I use the air buttons are to "silently" open the bellows before I start playing or to "silently" close the bellows when I'm finished.

 

I don't experience any problem on those instruments without such an air "button".  I just move the bellows gently and slowly,, with many buttons depressed, so that much air flows quickly and relatively quietly.

 

One could conceivably use an air button to regulate the timingg of bellows reversals, but I find that unnecessary.  By simply paying attention to the movement of the bellows, I can select proper timing.  After all, using an air button while playing notes just shortens the time before a bellows reversal is needed, but the same effect can be achieved by simply reversing the bellows before maximum extension or compression.

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Extremely clear Jim. Thank you very much! !

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I am with Jim on this, I could easily live without an air button on a Hayden if the trade-off was between that and a wanted note button.

 

Isel, it sounds like you are planning to build your own Hayden with 46 buttons in a 6 1/4" box?  Even with concertina reeds that is going to be a tight fit.

 

 

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53 minutes ago, Don Taylor said:

I am with Jim on this, I could easily live without an air button on a Hayden if the trade-off was between that and a wanted note button.

 

Isel, it sounds like you are planning to build your own Hayden with 46 buttons in a 6 1/4" box?  Even with concertina reeds that is going to be a tight fit.

 

 

I've got 51 buttons on my 6 1/4" jeffries duet and I want that air button for a low F.  Don't be hasty Isel.  Modifications are possible but perhaps difficult.  Consider all angles.  I notice that the Dipper "Shanty man" listed at Button Box has two left hand thumb keys.......🤔

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Thank you Don!.

Effectively, I am inclined to think in the same line as Jim an  Don point out.

However , your call to patience is welcome Erik .

Not myself  Don, instead I think Alex could do the job a little better...:D.

I know jeffries's reed shoes are somewhat smaller than other (even than a short-scaled?? ). But if anyone different from you Erik had told me about 51 buttons in 6 1/4....I didn't consider credibleB)

Could you please, Erik, ellaborate a little more about the role of air button when playing low F?

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If the air button is just used for opening/closing bellows quietly, not actively used during playing, it's usually possible to fit one in somehow. It may be necessary to use a very small pad close to the centre of the action board and/or place the button somewhere awkward to reach (e.g. in the side of the handrail). I didn't put one on my first instrument but I think if I was redesigning it now I would find a way to add one.

 

I am also curious to see how Jeffries fit 51 buttons into 6 1/4" (is that 50 notes + air?).

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7 hours ago, wunks said:

the Dipper "Shanty man" listed at Button Box has two left hand thumb keys

 

I have the key map for a different F/C Shantyman concertina which confirms that the two left hand buttons are an F drone and Eb/Cand I'd expect the ButtonBox one to be similar.  The air button on an anglo is under the right thumb (any exceptions?)

 

I've a 50 key Ab/Eb Jeffries Anglo (50 plus air) but in a 6 3/8" body - it's a tight squeeze!  Too difficult for me to post many pictures here but I can send a dropbox link if you're interested, Alex.

 

I've just finished restoring a large Lachenal 62 key duet withou an air button - it seems odd at first but I think the duet player I've loaned it to for an extended test won't find that a big issue

 

Alex West

AbEb R Draw reeds.JPG

AbEb L Draw reeds.JPG

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😮

Wow!!!!

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5 hours ago, Isel said:

Thank you Don!.

Effectively, I am inclined to think in the same line as Jim an  Don point out.

However , your call to patience is welcome Erik .

Not myself  Don, instead I think Alex could do the job a little better...:D.

I know jeffries's reed shoes are somewhat smaller than other (even than a short-scaled?? ). But if anyone different from you Erik had told me about 51 buttons in 6 1/4....I didn't consider credibleB)

Could you please, Erik, ellaborate a little more about the role of air button when playing low F?

-I agree that F is a lovely sounding key.

-The fingerings for F are better situated ( for my style ) than any other even the home key of C.

-This instrument is tuned in old pitch ( slightly below C#).  Because I have another Box in modern C, I'm considering tuning this one up to D so the F becomes G etc..  Much better fingerings for all the modern dance tunes.

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5 hours ago, alex_holden said:

If the air button is just used for opening/closing bellows quietly, not actively used during playing, it's usually possible to fit one in somehow. It may be necessary to use a very small pad close to the centre of the action board and/or place the button somewhere awkward to reach (e.g. in the side of the handrail). I didn't put one on my first instrument but I think if I was redesigning it now I would find a way to add one.

 

I am also curious to see how Jeffries fit 51 buttons into 6 1/4" (is that 50 notes + air?).

 

IMG_20190225_121019 (1).jpg

IMG_20190225_124151 (1).jpg

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In the photo you can see that the lower reeds have been weighted to save space ( I'm told).  Thumb key on the left is F# on the right is air.  I'm seeing some space proximate to the air opening for my F and perhaps an extra thumb key.......🤔

Edited by wunks
more info

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astonishing!

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Thanks @Alex West and @wunks, that's useful to see. It's interesting that although one is an anglo and the other is a duet, they have very similar reed pan layouts.

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13 hours ago, Alex West said:

 

I have the key map for a different F/C Shantyman concertina which confirms that the two left hand buttons are an F drone and Eb/Cand I'd expect the ButtonBox one to be similar.  The air button on an anglo is under the right thumb (any exceptions?)

 

 

 

Alex West

The Button Box key chart for that one shows f/f, bflat/a for the thumb keys.

Edited by wunks
delete non-relevant info.

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The Wheatstone standard 46 button Hayden Duet (21 L  &  25 R) is a 6.25 " Hexagon.  The reeds are set out radially as are almost  all Wheatstone concertinas.  I personally have never ever needed an air button whilst playing, and have only ever used an air button before starting or after finishing.  The 46 button Wheatstone has an air button incorporated into the front of the right hand, hand rest, which was specially designed by  Steve Dickinson,  and which opens onto the round hole in the center  of the reed-pan. 

Inventor. 

Edited by inventor
missed out a word.

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