New reeds

[Irish Newbie]

Thanks Tiposx for your reply. I'll try to get some repairs done myself (one end alreadyneeds 4 springs and some valves are sticking up). Love to find out what the story is about the broken reed!! I suspect you might have been playing too fast!!!?

 

[Don Taylor]

1 hour ago, Irish Newbie said:

Hope you can see this clearly.

These look like brass reeds.  Is there any sign of rust at all?  If they are brass then I would leave them be unless you eventually find that they need retuning.  Hopefully not.  Brass reeds sound sweeter than steel but they are not as loud so another factor against this box being used for ITM.  They break or crack easily so it is best not to mess with them if you don't have to do so - that includes not using the cleaning pen I posted about earlier.

 

I cannot see the split that you mention but you might be able to restore it to serviceable use by filling the crack with liquid epoxy.  If you have never worked with epoxy before then practice on some scrap lumber first - it will flow anywhere that it can and is absolutely permanent.  You might need to thicken it with some fine sawdust.  Read and follow the instructions on the cans.  A real concertina fettler may chime in to say why this is a bad idea...  Is it just the circular board that is split or is the action board underneath it split as well?

 

Curling valves:. You might be able to at least temporarily flatten them by stroking them with a dampened finger.  You can buy replacements.  Maybe you can remove the old ones without damaging them (try moistening the glued on end of a valve and hopefully they used a water-soluble glue which will allow it to be peeled off).  Clean them of glue and put them between two moistened kitchen paper sheets and compress everything with piles of books, for example.  Leave them like that for a week and maybe the valves will assume their proper flatness.  However, at the end of the day you may need to buy replacement valves, pads and some springs.

 

 

[Irish Newbie]

Don thanks for your reply. 

The split appears to be only in the circular wood, at 12 o'clock on the reed pan photo, if you zoom in on the empty holes you can see a crack horizontally. 

The reeds appear surprisingly good with just a little rust on the odd one but as it didn't seem to effect the sound I left it alone, thankfully, given your advice.

Thanks for the valve hint. I'll try that tomorrow.

[Don Taylor]

Looking again at the photo it looks like the only valves that are curling are the ones on the higher pitched reed (the smaller reeds).  If so then you may be able to get away with leaving them alone.  Quite often the highest pitched reeds do not have valves in the first place.

 

I would focus your time on fixing the action.

 

 

[Irish Newbie]

3 hours ago, Don Taylor said:

Looking again at the photo it looks like the only valves that are curling are the ones on the higher pitched reed (the smaller reeds).  If so then you may be able to get away with leaving them alone.  Quite often the highest pitched reeds do not have valves in the first place.

 

I would focus your time on fixing the action.

 

 

Great, I'll try that! Well spotted, eagle eye! Didn't pick up on that, but it's good to know.

[Don Taylor]

You might need a hypodermic needle to inject liquid epoxy into that skinny crack.  Again, experiment on something else first. 

 

There is another product that I have used on boat projects called Capt Tolley's Creeping Crack Cure (sic).  I think that this is a very thin type of superglue.

[Irish Newbie]

5 hours ago, Don Taylor said:

You might need a hypodermic needle to inject liquid epoxy into that skinny crack.  Again, experiment on something else first. 

 

There is another product that I have used on boat projects called Capt Tolley's Creeping Crack Cure (sic).  I think that this is a very thin type of superglue.

Great, thanks. You sound like a man with many talents!

[Wolf Molkentin]

12 hours ago, Don Taylor said:

Brass reeds sound sweeter than steel but they are not as loud...

 

Well, I can tell that quite "loud" brass reeds do exist - but I agree that this will most likely not be applicable here... ?

[wunks]

9 hours ago, Don Taylor said:

You might need a hypodermic needle to inject liquid epoxy into that skinny crack.  Again, experiment on something else first. 

 

There is another product that I have used on boat projects called Capt Tolley's Creeping Crack Cure (sic).  I think that this is a very thin type of superglue.

I use a thin triangular piece of clear stiff plastic snipped from various product packaging to coax glue into small cracks.  It is sometimes necessary to open the crack a bit with a tiny wedge or pin.

[Theo]

I think you should ignore the crack for now. It’s not a structural issue, and it won’t cause an air leak.  It’s also not a good idea to use a permanent adhesive like epoxy on concertina repairs as it may make future repairs more difficult.  I speak as a professional.  The jobs I most dislike doing are those where well meaning but inexperienced repairers have used unsuitable methods that are difficult to undo.

 

I recommend that you start by getting all the buttons, levers, pads and springs back into working order.  Some of the levers appear to be ok - you can use them as a model to put the others back together.  Replacing springs is not too difficult, and you might find that some or all of the pads need to be replaced.  That should be sufficient to get your concertina working.  You are then in a better position to assess what further work might be beneficial.

[Don Taylor]

1 hour ago, Theo said:

I think you should ignore the crack for now.

 

The crack runs through several of the anchor holes for the lever posts which is why the levers fell out.

 

How would you solve that problem without gluing together the two halves of the crack?

 

I understand your aversion to modern non-reversible glues but is there a a reversible glue that could do the job? 

 

Maybe move the anchor holes without having to make new levers?  Bridge the split in some way and locate the anchors in the bridge?

 

Remove everything and replace the action plate?

 

 

[Irish Newbie]

2 hours ago, Theo said:

I think you should ignore the crack for now. It’s not a structural issue, and it won’t cause an air leak.  It’s also not a good idea to use a permanent adhesive like epoxy on concertina repairs as it may make future repairs more difficult.  I speak as a professional.  The jobs I most dislike doing are those where well meaning but inexperienced repairers have used unsuitable methods that are difficult to undo.

 

I recommend that you start by getting all the buttons, levers, pads and springs back into working order.  Some of the levers appear to be ok - you can use them as a model to put the others back together.  Replacing springs is not too difficult, and you might find that some or all of the pads need to be replaced.  That should be sufficient to get your concertina working.  You are then in a better position to assess what further work might be beneficial.

Theo, that's great, thanks. My only issue with the crack is that it runs through some of the holes for the 'stay' of the spring. In some cases this has loosen it and they have come out. I pushed them in again but was very wary about the amount of pressure as I want them to stay in but not encourage the crack to become bigger.

I'm short 4No. springs on one side (second side still to be assessed) but so far so good!?

[Irish Newbie]

1 hour ago, Don Taylor said:

 

 

Remove everything and replace the action plate?

 

 

Don, are you trying to give me a heart attack? 

Replacing the action plate sounds complicated. I might be wrong but it seems that it is glued to the circular action plate as I can't see any screws.

Might take nerves of steel trying that. I presume there would be a high risk of the fretwork being damaged during that particular operation?

[Irish Newbie]

PS. How would I go about getting new springs?

[Don Taylor]

By action plate, I mean the circular plate with the split in it.  Removal and replacement would be daunting.

 

Given Theo's objection to epoxy or super glue, maybe you could bridge the split in sections with some thin slats of wood, leaving the existing anchor holes unbridged.  This would stabilize the action plate.  You would then need to fill the anchor holes (glued in wood slivers(?) so that new anchor holes could be made in the same place as the old ones for the lever anchors.

 

Re. new springs.  In the UK Concertina Spares sell them, in the US the Concertina Connection.  You could make your own or even re-purpose some safety pins...

 

 

[Theo]

It's hard to offer good advice just from a photo,  but I think what I would do would be to remove the smaller piece of wood, then clean off the old glue from all surfaces, clean up the edges of the split so they fit closely together and then glue the piece back in place with good clamping so that the glue line beneath the piece and across the crack are both tightly closed.  For glue I would use hide glue, but I know that's not possible for most people.  Liquid hide glue  or fish glue would be good substitutes, both are readily available by mail order.   Whatever type of glue you use will be most effective only if you clamp the joints firmly.

[Irish Newbie]

Theo, thanks so much for the information, I really appreciate it.

Out of curiosity, why would most people not be able to use hide glue?

Is it not available in Europe?

[alex_holden]

7 hours ago, Irish Newbie said:

Theo, thanks so much for the information, I really appreciate it.

Out of curiosity, why would most people not be able to use hide glue?

Is it not available in Europe?

 

It's readily available (try eBay) in the form of dry granules that you dissolve in water to make a stiff gel and then warm up to liquify it. If you're working with it frequently a thermostatic electric glue pot is very convenient, but for occasional use you can make do with an improvised bain marie and a thermometer. Some people complain about the smell; after working with it for years I don't even notice it any more unless I stick my nose right in the pot.