Jeffries and Wheatstone layouts

[rudeboy]

I'd like to post a question about people's experiences with playing both Jeffries and Wheatstone layouts and switching back and forth between them, difficulties encountered (or if it's crazy to even contemplate it) etc., not a debate about which is best or preferred, but I'm not sure which forum it belongs in. Any suggestions?

[wunks]

Anglo's?

[Doug Anderson]

I spent several months trying to play both my Morse with the Wheatstone layout and my Jeffries with the Jeffries layout - both are G/D Anglos. I eventually gave up and sent the Morse to The Button Box to have the reeds changed to the Jeffries layout. I had no particular preference for one layout over the other but switching the Morse was a much more practical solution. 

[rudeboy]

Yes, Anglos. I could be wrong, but I don't think Jeffries and Wheatstone layouts apply to English.  Or duet for that matter.

 

Thanks, Doug Anderson. That's funny. I started on Wheatstone, and after studying the layout charts, swore I'd never want anything else. When I bought my Edgley on eBay, it was advertised as Wheatstone, so I was pretty annoyed to find out it was actually Jeffries, but once I learned it I discovered I liked it a lot more, so go figger.  It took a while form my fingers to adapt, though.

[wunks]

2 hours ago, rudeboy said:

Yes, Anglos. I could be wrong, but I don't think Jeffries and Wheatstone layouts apply to English.  Or duet for that matter.

 

 

I assumed you meant anglos but wanted to clarify because both Wheatstone and Jeffries made duets and Wheatstone made at least a few with a Jeff pattern.  I have one and it has enough variation from the standard Jeffries duet to make your question relevant for these instruments.....?

[rudeboy]

Learn something new every day.

 

I'm still hoping someone will suggest the proper forum for my question: General Concertina Discussion,  Teaching and Learning, other? Anyone?

[wunks]

I'd say General discussion.  It's top o' the list and probably gets the most "reeds".

[rudeboy]

thanks, wunks, the most reeds wins

[rudeboy]

I'd like to hear about people's experiences with playing both Jeffries and Wheatstone layouts in Anglo concertinas and switching back and forth between them, difficulties encountered, strategies for making it work, or if it's crazy to even contemplate doing it, etc.

 

My own experience is limited, I learned on Wheatstone layout, and when I was thinking of buying a better instrument, I studied the layout charts, and swore I'd never want anything other than Wheatstone.

 

When I bought my Edgley on eBay, it was advertised as Wheatstone, so I was pretty annoyed to find out it was actually Jeffries. I even talked to Frank about the cost of changing the reeds in the third row on the right. But once I learned to play Jeffries, I discovered I liked it a lot more. It took a while for my fingers to adapt, though.

 

After that, I tried to play Wheatstone layout once, but gave it up quickly, for various reasons.

 

So far, I’ve heard from Doug Anderson, who said “I spent several months trying to play both my Morse with the Wheatstone layout and my Jeffries with the Jeffries layout - both are G/D Anglos. I eventually gave up and sent the Morse to The Button Box to have the reeds changed to the Jeffries layout. I had no particular preference for one layout over the other but switching the Morse was a much more practical solution.”

[Wolf Molkentin]

@Ken_Coles or Paul, could you merge the threads, here's the more recent and final one...

 

Best wishes - ?

[JimLucas]

5 hours ago, Wolf Molkentin said:

@Ken_Coles or Paul, could you merge the threads, here's the more recent and final one...

 

This is the far more complete thread, though it should probably be moved to replace the one in General Discussion.  Replace, because nothing would be lost by doing so.

[JimLucas]

On 6/20/2019 at 7:16 PM, rudeboy said:

I'd like to post a question about people's experiences with playing both Jeffries and Wheatstone layouts and switching back and forth between them....

 

I'd say that this is just a particular example of the more general issue of switching between layouts... e.g., English vs. anglo or different duet systems.

 

And I think it's been well established over the years that this turns out to be something very individual.

 

For some, any sort of switching back and forth can be next to impossible, while for others it's "no problem", i.e., more like flipping a switch and suddenly everything is "reset" to be entirely oriented to the "next" arrangement.  What's more, some folks may have no problem switching between massively different systems (e.g., anglo vs. English) but have serious problems if the differences are minor (e.g., Wheatstone vs. Jeffries anglos), while for others the reverse may be true.

 

So in the end, I think it's something you yourself will have to experiment with, to discover what your personal parameters are.  But I will add that as with most things, the more you practice switching, the easier it will become.  (No guarantee that it will ever become "easy", but also no guarantee that it won't.)

[mike_s]

Funny, I also have an Edgley.  When I got it (used) I thought it was a Wheatstone as that’s what I’d had before.  Then fast forward several months and I found the pull C#.  I thought it was kind of odd.  I had a lesson some time later and asked about it.  My instructor said it was a Jefferies.........  Duh!  I’m so stupid sometimes.  I kind of prefer the Jefferies layout.  My 26 button Jones only has the one C#,  which kind of cramps my style a little.

[rudeboy]

Thanks, Jim

 

It makes sense to me that switching between more different systems, i.e. Anglo and English,  concertina and B/C accordion, would be easier, but I accept the fact that this ability differs widely from person to person, there being no way to predict how easily any individual might be able to do it, and that practice would increase the odds of pulling it off. 

 

Merging the two threads seems like a good idea, but I don't know how to go about it. 

[LateToTheGame]

I learned on a Wheatstone and never gave a Jeffries enough time.  I do know of some people who have changed when a particularly attractive instrument came their way, but I don't know of anyone who has gone back and forth at any speed. 

[Ken_Coles]

I started on various Stagis and Lachenals (all Wheatstone or close to it), and later got a Morse (my most-played box) in Jeffries layout. For the notes used in most of my playing only the location of the C# (upper octave) varies, and I can now reset my brain in a few minutes. I suspect guitar players who change tuning (standard, DADGAD, drop-D, etc.) go through something similar. I have a few arrangements of tunes that are the same on both systems, and one or two that are specific to one or the other.

 

Ken

[JimLucas]

Ken, there are two parallel threads on this same topic, which should be merged.  The thread under Forum Questions, Suggestions, Help has the more replies, but here in General Concertina Discussion -- or maybe even under Teaching and Learning -- would be a more appropriate location for the merged result.  You're the one who can do that.  8^)

[JimLucas]

On 6/23/2019 at 9:40 PM, rudeboy said:

Merging the two threads seems like a good idea, but I don't know how to go about it. 

 

Ken Coles is the one who can do that, and since he contributed in the other thread, I've asked there for him to do it.