Instrument Speed

[caj]

I know that the second half of the Ebb Tide is a pain to play on the fiddle, owing to a G arpeggio with lots of jumps in it.

 

These session matters are more of a pain in the USA, I think, because in wide stretches of the country trad musicians are rare. Hence you never want to get on the bad side of a single one of them.

 

Question: are there creative ways to deal with such domineering people?

 

For example, another problem at sessions is the bad player who isn't aware he/she is making non-musical sounds and tripping up everyone else. These include the over-loud, the off-rhythm, the out-of-tune (not us!), and people who don't know any tunes but play random counterpoint.

 

There are some creative solutions to that type of problem: you can record the session for educational purposes, then burn a CD for everyone for next week. Sometimes this helps to increase the player's awareness.

 

Caj

[JimLucas]

HEY YOU KIDS!  TURN DOWN THAT STEREO!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What's a "stereo"? ... And where's my iPod?!!

[JimLucas]

...you can record the session for educational purposes, then burn a CD for everyone for next week.  Sometimes this helps to increase the player's awareness.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But sometimes it doesn't. And sometimes people will get angry with you for having done so, or simply for the implication that they are less than perfect.

 

If the problem were strictly musical, it would be quite different, though there would still be differences of opinion. But the real issue is usually personalities. We sometimes have problems with that here. Think how much trickier it can be in a face-to-face situation with people you may also interact with in other parts of your life.

Edited March 4, 2005 by JimLucas

[Robert Booth]

I have noticed that when playing harmonica I have a tendency to speed up.I can catch myself and get back on tempo, but it is one of my (many) weaknesses. I find that playing really slow tunes is more of a challenge, both playing and singing; the amount of control to keep a note dead on pitch and intensity is more pronounced. You can't just gloss it over and hurry on to the next big thing.

Bluegrass often gets played so fast that it melts down into a blur of banjo and mandolin noises that lose the emptional effect. I much prefer clear articulate music, just as I appreciate clear and articulate speech.

[Mark Evans]

Robert! I'm suprised! Shocked even . The very idea of not beating the beegeezus outta yer instrument on the road perdition is... well unheard of in a bluegrass -go- fer- broke jam. Articulate music? Whazat! Ma! Brang me my scatter gun!

 

You must have been at some of the jams I found myself in. When I sobered up I got the you-know-what outta there.

[Daniel Bradbury]

Music for me is a communion of likeminded spirits. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

AMEN!

[d.elliott]

My experience:

 

Fiddlers always dominate speed,

melodians set the key

Anglos 'out bounce' the English out of the room

Bodhrans compete with each other

 

Everyone forgets that the music is often dance music and that the tempo and beat/ lift should be to suit the imaginary dancers. Unless its a slow air, which most session players seen to struggle with.

 

Dave

[Theo]

The wonderful feature of my favourite session is that the best players will stop and listen when an unfamiliar tune is introduced. There are frequent pauses between the tunes, newcomers are listened to with consideration. A whole range of tempos are played. Whatever the tempo the music always has energy and life. Its a life-enhancing experience. I am so fortunate to be able to take part!

 

Theo

[Mark Evans]

This thread continues to be very revealing. I find myself thinking over members posts throughout the day and my own experiences.

 

Alan, thank you for starting this.

[Helen]

Theo,

 

I want to go to your session.

 

Alan,

 

I second Mark. Thanks for this wonderful thread.

 

Helen

[Chris Timson]

Everyone forgets that the music is often dance music and that the tempo and beat/ lift should be to suit the imaginary dancers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hear hear! Having been heavily influenced by John Kirkpatrick in various workshops, this has always been very much part of my own thinking. If you play dance tunes at dance speed they will sound much better anyway.

 

If you don't mind me blowing my own trumpet (squeeezing my own box?) a bit, I am glad to say that the session we started last September has settled down very nicely into the sort of mould Theo describes. We haven't had anybody try to dominate the proceedings - even among the fiddlers! We have a couple of regular attendees for whom this is their first session, who keep coming because they feel at ease and not pressured. I really enjoy our sessions!

 

Chris

[Jim Besser]

My experience:

 

Fiddlers always dominate speed

melodians set the key

Anglos 'out bounce' the English out of the room

Bodhrans compete with each other

 

Everyone forgets that the music is often dance music and that the tempo and beat/ lift should be to suit the imaginary dancers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well stated.

 

In Irish music, the trend seems to be to regard music as a competitive sport; speed is often valued more than musicality.

 

The other thing I've noticed: nobody wants to be a rhythm player any more. More and more, I play in settings where nobody is concentrating on laying down the rhythmic base. The guitar and piano players are doing wild and creative things, but driving the session/band with rock-solid rhythm isn't one of them, and the music suffers as a result.

 

Everybody wants to be a star, I guess. Or maybe I'm just getting old and crotchety

Edited March 6, 2005 by Jim Besser

[Theo]

Theo,

 

I want to go to your session.

 

Alan,

 

I second Mark. Thanks for this wonderful thread.

 

Helen

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

First and third tuesday of the month, (and the 5th tuesday when there is one) at the Cumberland Arms, Byker, Newcastle upon Tyne. And there is usually a double bass player and/or guitar who between them lay down a rock solid foundation. There are some wonderful fiddle players too, a couple of regular Northumbrian pipes players, one of who also plays English concertina.

 

BTW ist not the well-known Wednesday Irish session at the same venue which I have never been to. It was started as an alternative and goes under the name of ABI or "Anything but Irish"!

 

Thanks from me too Mark.

 

Theo

[richard]

Hello

 

As a relative beginner and because of my delberately slow pace of acquiring, learning and mastering (to the extent I am capable of) each tune I have been a bit hesitant to attend sessions. I know playing with others is the great next step to improve my playing.

 

I have been to a number of slow sessions. I have never been able to say I enjoy the experience. At times I have felt a small rush of excitement at being able to play along on a tune I have in common with some others who are there. Or even getting an encouraging nod when I offer up a tune on my own.

 

I will admit most of the time being at the sessions painfully makes me confront the limitations of my skills and repetoire....but that is nobody's fault.

 

BUT one slow session in particular there was a fellow who insisted on playing his fiddle at a very quick tempo leaving me and maybe others behind. It did sound very unmusical to me. It seemed he thought of himself as another Paganini perhaps. I thought of Delacroix's portrait of Paganini writhing and entranced. But this guy was no Paganini.

 

I distinctly felt like a driver being tailgated and if I could have slammed on some musical version of power brakes I would have even if it would have put a small dent in my German silver bumpers.

 

Richard

Edited March 7, 2005 by richard

[John Wild]

Everybody wants to be a star, I guess.  Or maybe I'm just getting old and crotchety

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

but only to a MINIMal degree, I say with a (semi)quavering voice

[bill_mchale]

Hello

 

As a relative beginner and because of my delberately slow pace of acquiring, learning and mastering (to the extent I am capable of) each tune I have been  a bit hesitant to attend sessions. I know playing with others is the great next step to improve my playing.

 

I have been to a number of slow sessions. I have never been able to say I enjoy the experience. At times I have felt a small rush of excitement at being able to play along on a tune I have in common with some others who are there. Or even getting an encouraging nod when I offer up a tune on my own.

 

I will admit most of the time being at the sessions painfully makes me confront the limitations of my skills and repetoire....but that is nobody's fault.

 

BUT one slow session in particular there was a fellow who insisted on playing his fiddle at a very quick tempo leaving me and maybe others behind. It did sound very unmusical to me. It seemed he thought of himself as another Paganini perhaps. I thought of Delacroix's portrait of Paganini writhing and entranced. But this guy was no Paganini.

 

I distinclty felt like a driver being tailgated and if I could have slammed on some musical version of power brakes I would have even if would have put a small dent in my German silver bumpers.

 

Richard

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Richard, I would suggest going to more sessions. Your self consciousness will ease as you get to know the people at the session. But I find attending regular sessions to be invaluable for several reasons.

 

1. You get to know what the local tunes are. It really sucks to learn a bunch of tunes no one else plays.

 

2. You get more comfortable playing your tunes and playing with other people. The way I see it, you really don't know your instrument or a tune until you can play them when you are playing with other people.

 

3. You will make alot of friends. Many of the people at the slow session probably feel the same as you do, so there really is no reason to be intimidated by them.

 

 

Ok, now regarding the person playing ultra-fast at a slow session.. thats just poor ettiquette. A slow session should be defined by the abilities of the slowest player.... if you are only comfortable playing 45 BPM then that is what everyone should play the tune at.. If a guy really can play so fast that no one can keep up with him he should either play slower or move up to a faster session.

 

--

Bill

[JimLucas]

...one slow session in particular there was a fellow who insisted on playing his fiddle at a very quick tempo...

...regarding the person playing ultra-fast at a slow session.. thats just poor ettiquette.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I dunno, Bill. Would you describe muggings as "poor etiquitte"?

A blatant violation of the stated rules ("slow" is in the name of the session, yes?) should be treated as a punishable offense. The individual should be reminded that it's a slow session, then warned, then ejected for even one more offense.

 

Richard, if the people who need the session to be slow can't enforce their own rules, the session isn't likely to last. Bill is right, the guy should either slow down or move to another session. (However, from your description, I might speculate that the reason he's joined your session is that in the other sessions he's not the fastest.)

[JimLucas]

I have been to a number of slow sessions. I have never been able to say I enjoy the experience. At times I have felt a small rush of excitement at being able to play along on a tune I have in common with some others who are there. Or even getting an encouraging nod when I offer up a tune on my own.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's been said before, but it's worth saying again: You should try playing, without playing all the notes.

 

If there's a passage that's too fast, just leave out some of the in-between notes. You may have to start by playing only one or two notes per measure, or even leaving out several measures at a time, but as time goes by you should be able to gradually fill in the gaps. As long as others are playing, your gaps shoudn't be disturbing or even particularly noticeable. Meanwhile, you can have a sense of participating while gradually building up both confidence and skill. This method can also help you to a much better understanding/feel of how the music is put together, a skill which can help with learning new tunes in the future.