"tenor treble"

[alex_holden]

20 minutes ago, Wolf Molkentin said:

I seem to recall that someone had been successful insofar that the reed would eventually sound both ways, but far from any sufficient, let alone pleasing tone...

 

Best wishes - ?

 

Yes, that was the experiment I referred to. It was, roughly speaking, a normal reed with a second, upside-down frame screwed to the top of it, with the tongue clamped in a recess between the two. The main problem was that the two frames interfered with each other in a way that prevented the reed operating efficiently, reliably, or at anywhere near normal amplitude. It was also more time-consuming to make than a pair of standard unidirectional reeds.

[Geoff Wooff]

12 hours ago, Little John said:

 

... at the expense of one's current enjoyment, presumably!

 

I understand your point, Geoff, but if this "fiddling" is confined to the margins I don't see much harm. My first Crane was a 35 button which only goes up to G5. As on many such instruments the Eb5 was repurposed to A5. I played this for two years and when I got a larger instrument there was no difficulty in changing to A5 in the standard position.

 

Is there really anything wrong with being a one-instrument player? If it does what you want and the others don't why would you want to play others? The modifications are reversible, so you can do the same to any new instruments you acquire (I've done this) and others who buy your instrument can revert to standard if they wish.

 

LJ

 

I'm sure there is nothing wrong with adjusting  an instrument to suit your requirements  especially when it is totally reversible, I was  just suggesting  it  might mess with one's future development.

 

I'll  give an example  of what I mean about sticking with  the stock layout  of  the keyboard  :

 

During  the Tune of the Month  for  May 2013   I made an  ad lib recording  of the  Playford tune   'Parsons Farewell'  . Playing the tune  in  7 different keys  during one 2 minute take:

D min,   G min, C min, A min, E min, F# min  and B minor ,  and,of course, their relative majors  for the second part  of the piece.    It is a simple tune and  thus possible  to  do this, initially as an experiment to test the efficacy  of the  temperament  I am using  but  it also  shows  the importance of  mental  mapping  of the  keyboard layout.

 

To do this on the EC  requires two  mirror  reversals  of fingering from an inital starting  position  and the  addition/subtraction of  accidentals  needed for each key signature.  Once  one can do this  sort of thing  there can be a change from  playing a tune on an instrument  to  Playing the  instrument.  Here is a link to the recording:

 

 

    If

Edited January 3, 2019 by Geoff Wooff

[Wolf Molkentin]

Geoff - of course I recall your sucessful experiment (which hadn't failed to impress me) - however we're not talking about design change over the entire range, just at its very bottom (an as for me just concerning this single Ab button)...

 

Best wishes - ?

[Geoff Wooff]

36 minutes ago, Wolf Molkentin said:

Geoff - of course I recall your sucessful experiment (which hadn't failed to impress me) - however we're not talking about design change over the entire range, just at its very bottom (an as for me just concerning this single Ab button)...

 

Best wishes - ?

Yes Wolf, a single  note  change   is no  real problem  but Scoopet's  idea  to  gain  F,E, D and C  by changing the Ab's and G#'s  was  a wee bit  more radical.

By the way  the  larger Baritone Treble ( model 16  I think?) does  go as  far  down  as  F and F#.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Geoff Wooff

[Wolf Molkentin]

6 minutes ago, Geoff Wooff said:

By the way  the  larger Baritone Treble ( model 16  I think?) does  go as  far  down  as  F and F#.

 

this had slipped my mind - terrific!

 

(but I reckon I would be tempted to weight the Ab down to a very low D then... ?)

 

[Theo]

Something else to bear in mind is reed and chamber size.   Those low reeds on a TT will be much longer, and the chambers significantly larger than the notes you are proposing to change.   This will result in poorer response and volume compared to the TT.   Some people are more sensitive than others to that kind of difference, so it may or may not be important for you.

[Wolf Molkentin]

24 minutes ago, Theo said:

omething else to bear in mind is reed and chamber size.   Those low reeds on a TT will be much longer, and the chambers significantly larger than the notes you are proposing to change.   This will result in poorer response and volume compared to the TT.

 

Yes, it would be a different thing, not sounding that profound - as it is already the case with the low F added to an English treble - but my understanding of the OP was that he is rather musing about the availability of those notes than a certain idea of how they would sound...

 

Best wishes - ?

[Chris Drinkwater]

On 1/2/2019 at 8:24 PM, Geoff Wooff said:

I so much enjoyed  the first time  I took the Baritone Treble to an Irish session  and found  I could  drop  the ocatve  on any tune  , almost automatically,  BECAUSE  I had  absorbed  the  finger  paterns of, at least  , the common keys.

 

 

Well, I don't play Irish music but as the fortunate owner of a 64 key baritone Treble, it does have its advantages, as Geoff points out above.

Chris

[Little John]

1 hour ago, Chris Drinkwater said:

Well, I don't play Irish music but as the fortunate owner of a 64 key baritone Treble, it does have its advantages, as Geoff points out above.

Chris

 

Well, I don't play Irish music either, nor the English concertina that much nowadays, but it's always struck me that the 48 button baritone is a great instrument. All the buttons are easily within reach and you can use normal treble fingering to play an octave down. The compass (up to C6) allows you to play in the treble range too and the logic of the fingering (to which Geoff has frequently referred) means it's not particularly difficult to do so. And all in a smaller and lighter instrument than a baritone treble.

 

LJ

[Geoff Wooff]

10 hours ago, Little John said:

 

Well, I don't play Irish music either, nor the English concertina that much nowadays, but it's always struck me that the 48 button baritone is a great instrument. All the buttons are easily within reach and you can use normal treble fingering to play an octave down. The compass (up to C6) allows you to play in the treble range too and the logic of the fingering (to which Geoff has frequently referred) means it's not particularly difficult to do so. And all in a smaller and lighter instrument than a baritone treble.

 

LJ

Indeed  that is  a very good point  Little John.

[scoopet]

I have a baritone.....so perhaps I should  practice the opposite fingering in the treble range.....

Save myself some money.......!!

[scoopet]

Nope ..... can't in any way do it automatically.......

However if anyone can and they want to swap their baritone-treble for my baritone....message me please?

[Wolf Molkentin]

1 hour ago, scoopet said:

I have a baritone.....so perhaps I should  practice the opposite fingering in the treble range.....

Save myself some money.......!!

 

Why not play both alternately (the baritone admittedly not the way I‘m using my TT, just adding „bass notes“, but playing everything in the lower octave if appropriate or preferred) then?

[scoopet]

Wolf,

I love playing my baritone as it sounds lovely......but I essentially play it exactly the same way as my treble.The idea of the tenor or baritone treble is that I can improve my playing by adding some lower accompanying notes to tunes I already play........

[Wolf Molkentin]

1 hour ago, scoopet said:

Wolf,

I love playing my baritone as it sounds lovely......but I essentially play it exactly the same way as my treble.The idea of the tenor or baritone treble is that I can improve my playing by adding some lower accompanying notes to tunes I already play........

 

Yes, of course I can easily relate to that - it‘s what I‘m doing myself...