Alan Day Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 (edited) When I was a young lad(A few years ago)I used to stand outside a pub in Clapham near the Common listening to Sing Songs.Every Friday night a piano would start up and the singing would start.Music Hall,X Wartime songs etc and I longed to be inside singing with them. Many years later one of the things that attracted me to Morris Dancing was the singing and session that followed the dancing and eventually led to me playing concertina for some of that singing. This week in Morecambe a pub landlord was warned of a massive fine as the Police said that more than two people singing was Kareoke. I wonder if you share my anger at this downright stupidity. Al Edited March 1, 2005 by Alan Day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Booth Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Is this to say that karaoke is illegal in the U.K? One might even see the reasoning thereof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Evans Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 I wonder Alan, would the local constabulary prefer a country and western band with one very bad singer and amplification of close to 125 dbl? Besides it was my impression that kareoke involves one singer and a sound track of some sort (and of course enough spirits to oil the whole misadventure). The word asinine come to mind. (again thank you for the suprise), I'm enjoying it right now. Cut 12 really gets the feet tapping! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Now see, Al, you would be safe with me. Just smiling, no singing. I like it, the Brits are with me. Helen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigsqueezergeezer Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 Alan I believe that this has to do with the 2003 licencing regulations for public performances. Any more that two people performing, requires the venue to be licenced at a considerable fee. There have been reported instances of the nature you describe. One pub was warned for a person holding an informal "spoons" workshop for half a dozen folks! This also affects sessions and "Apre Morris" sings etc. The efdss, the morris ring and other groups have been fighting a campaign against the legislation and have won some concessions and a review, with an aim of making informal gatherings exempt. Folk clubs however, remain under threat. I don't know how to link, but go to www.efdss.org/licencing for some more details Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigsqueezergeezer Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 Another bit of info :- A petition request (I think I learned how to link, but I'm not promising!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henk van Aalten Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 Another bit of info :- A petition request (I think I learned how to link, but I'm not promising!) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I works perfect for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Day Posted March 2, 2005 Author Share Posted March 2, 2005 You are correct Derek and what annoys me the most is that this sing along was organised for pensioners who were travelling miles to enjoy the evening singing. Please members of this site join in this petition and thanks Derek for letting me know about it. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 This week in Morecambe a pub landlord was warned of a massive fine as the Police said that more than two people singing was Kareoke.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sounds like these police have their heads wedged in a dark location. The singing may indeed have been against the 2-in-a-bar law... at least as some have interpreted it. It would definitely be in violation of the new regulation, which -- to the best of my knowledge -- has not yet been (and I hope never will be) passed. BUT... it is *not* karaoke, not even under a full moon. (They shouldn't use Japanese words if they don't know what they mean.) And as far as I know karaoke as such is outside the 2-in-a-bar rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 When I was a young lad(A few years ago)I used to stand outside a pub in Clapham near the Common listening to Sing Songs.Every Friday night a piano would start up and the singing would start.Music Hall,X Wartime songs etc and I longed to be inside singing with them.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> They were still going on in Leyton when I was living there, and in other parts of East London too. Paul Davies used to love to go along with me when he was visiting, and listen to a guy called Ricky Charles who was a great busker on the piano, he could play any song in any key, even changing key to follow a wayward singer if required. Mind you, one night we got talking to an old man with a banjo who was playing along, and were horrified when he told us that he used to have a Jeffries Anglo, but the bellows got so bad that he threw it in the dustbin ! I wonder if you share my anger at this downright stupidity. I do indeed Al, it is potentially very damaging to the Nation's culture and music-making. I'm glad that I now live in a country where the government has more respect for such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Evans Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 I am more and more distressed by this as I read. An attack of a core element of human need, pure and simple...driven by what? Stephen, you are safe for the present. Evidently, things change. Soon enough, I won't be able to hold a sing-along for the elderly at my school or at their retirment facility for fear that we might disturb someone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffwright Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 Rest assured, the Ministry of Culture (sic) that brought you the Doom and hopefully not the Southern-England Olympic Games (Northerners do not want them), has already ruled that if more than one person gets up to sing on their own during the evening, that counts as two people singing so will be in breach of the new law. After the number of Ministers who have recently resigned/moved from Education to Culcha, Meeja and Sport, they must know what they are talking about. Mike Harding was very brave and actually broached the subject last night on his R2 program regarding problems already affecting Whitby Festival and all Sam Smiths pubs (including Nellies at Beverley). Unfortunately, he only quoted his conversations with Kim Howells two years ago and was not brave enough to invite a Minister to be interviewed (on the evening of the BBCs new contract). Wait and see .... we told you so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuart estell Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 Wait and see .... we told you so. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, indeed. It's a real risk that people will be too intimidated by the threat of fines/prison etc. to fight this idiotic heavy-handedness. Hopefully, any police officer worth his salt will consider it a waste of police time to go and round up a few errant folk singers - the worst of it, though, will come when administrative jobsworths want to boost their month-end/year-end crime figures, and, ever eager to meet whatever targets are imposed from on high in Whitehall, decide that nabbing a few criminals (sorry, "musicians"... forgot myself there for a minute ) is an easy way of doing so. We'd better just pray that the first test case that makes it to court is heard by a music-loving judge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 We'd better just pray that the first test case that makes it to court is heard by a music-loving judge... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Better still, a concertina-playing judge ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otsaku Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 What I don't understand is the point of the law... Is it a question of licensing - having a license for live music to be performed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuart estell Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 What I don't understand is the point of the law... Is it a question of licensing - having a license for live music to be performed? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's right. I've lost track of it all to be honest, but I had thought that acoustic music/singarounds etc had obtained some sort of exemption. Obviously not. <cynicism> It seems to stem from a basic desire for bureaucratic control of everything, to be honest. </cynicism> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otsaku Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 To be slightly more cynical I think it has more to do with making us all as alike as possible. After all you folkies have been subverting society as long as society has existed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuart estell Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 After all you folkies have been subverting society as long as society has existed <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Perish the thought (I wish there was an "innocently whistling" smiley)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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