Are the top modern models as good as or better than the old top model concertinas

[McDouglas]

On 12/12/2018 at 10:48 AM, Don Taylor said:

In another post you say that you have decided to stick with the EC. 

 

AFAICT there is only one modern maker of ECs - Wim Wakker.  They are not cheap and the waiting list is long.

http://www.wakker-concertinas.com/english pricelist.htm

 

Steve, a member here, has a Parnassus.

 

 

Does anyone own or has anyone played the Busker English or the Rose English?  I would love to know.

[Rich C R]

On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 4:48 PM, Don Taylor said:

In another post you say that you have decided to stick with the EC. 

 

AFAICT there is only one modern maker of ECs - Wim Wakker.  They are not cheap and the waiting list is long.

http://www.wakker-concertinas.com/english pricelist.htm

 

Steve, a member here, has a Parnassus.

 

 

My enquiry is just a general one.   I am not looking for a new EC.   But thanks for highlighting a good modern maker.

[Don Taylor]

3 hours ago, McDouglas said:

Does anyone own or has anyone played the Busker English or the Rose English?

Not a Rose, but I once owned a Peacock Hayden which is in the same familiy of intermediate concertinas as the Rose.  I believe that the Busker is mechanically and acoustically the same, or very nearly the same as the Rose, just some cost reductions on the cosmetics.

 

Anyway, I was happy with my Peacock and would stlll be playing it if a Morse Beaumont had not come available  to me at a very good price and within a few hours drive from my home.   

 

Only two things bothered me, one of which would not worry you on an English - I wanted the lhs to be quieter than the rhs.  The other thing was a minor cosmetic issue: the ends are finished with oil rather than French polish or a modern urethane, they are not shiny smooth and can pick up oil and dirt from your hands.  Wim advised me to to wax polish the ends if it bothered me too much.  If you choose a black finished Rose and then I think it would be fine.  The Busker is only available in black.

 

Internally, my Peacock was very nicely designed, well made and sounded good, especially in the treble range - the lower notes on the Peacock were a bit nasal sounding but you would not have these notes on a Rose or a Minstral. 

 

If you buy a Minstrel then I think, for your style of playing especially, you should consider the upgrade for the better handmade bellows. 

 

Added later:. I see that you have started a separate topic on buying an EC.  Having said nice things about the Peacock/Rose line, it is still a hybrid concertina with accordion reeds.  Playing an EC you should be able to find a decent vintage instrument for the price of a Rose.  

Edited December 16, 2018 by Don Taylor

[David Barnert]

On 12/12/2018 at 2:10 PM, Lofty said:

Steve Dickinson still makes English concertinas under the Wheatstone name.

 

See http://www.wheatstone.co.uk/wheatstone/

 

I imagine his waiting times are long too.

 

Steve

 

He’s had my deposit on a 55-button Hayden since 1989.

[Rich C R]

16 minutes ago, David Barnert said:

 

He’s had my deposit on a 55-button Hayden since 1989.

You are not in a hurry then...…..!

[d.elliott]

On 12/14/2018 at 8:16 PM, JayMiller said:

I think its all about time. The average vintage concertina has survived a century at this point. Any vintage concertinas that left the factory with major defects probably wound up in the trash bin 70 years ago, so the surviving population is probably better than average.

 

A new concertina is an unknown commodity and will remain so for years to come. You can buy one and  you'll probably be dead before the wood starts cracking and the reeds start breaking. In 100 years people might be talking about the 2nd Golden Age of Concertina Making or they'll be talking about how the concertinas of the 21st Century all fell apart after only 50 years. Who knows? More importantly, who cares? You'll get a lifetime out of it.

 

Actually, and surprisingly, concertinas with OEM or near OEM faults have survived, and not just one or two. I have had instances where something that made an instrument a problem apparently caused the owner to lose patience or confidence and the concertina has been stuffed in a wardrobe to surface many years later, and in pristine condition. Put the fault right service and re-tune as needed and a fist class 'tina emerges. Some times the fault was minor, sidelined for a broken action part, or a split in the pad board.  Yet hardly ever played.

 

Dave

 

[d.elliott]

9 hours ago, Rich C R said:

My enquiry is just a general one.   I am not looking for a new EC.   But thanks for highlighting a good modern maker.

 

The issue is how do you define 'good'

 

robust?

durability

reliable?

light in weight?

fancy cosmetics?

Super-fast?

Loud?

Mellifluous?

unique in someway?

Mellow?

keeps it's tuning?

extra bellows folds?

Easy to control Bellows?

Soft Bellows?

smooth action?

Firm action?

 

Modern Materials? Modern adhesives?

 

when there was the major fire in York Minster some of the major roof beams had to be replaced, there was an effort to determine what materials should be used, the performance criteria was that the original beams had lasted over 900 years, the replacements had to be at least as 'good', take all the stresses, perform and last that long. The research and learned bodies teamed up and looked at stainless steels, carbon fibre composites and goodness knows what else. The only material that could be 'guaranteed' to last 900 years was European Oak, as per the original beams, the logs were floated over (so I was told) from Scandinavia.

 

The so called vintage 'tinas have lasted over 100 year, some a bit less, some a fair bit more, made using animal glues and Victorian materials, this is established, a fact. we can only lab test MDF, Birch ply etc and try an judge what its longevity may be.   Modern tina's might last 200 years, bone as used in bone buttons, can last centuries in the ground,what about  nylon/ delrin? 

 

It all comes down to what you want, the kudos and buzz of owning and playing a historical instrument, the pride in owning and playing a finely crafted reproduction instrument? yer pars yer money and takes yer chances

 

Dave

 

 

 

 

 

[Mikefule]

7 hours ago, d.elliott said:

 

The issue is how do you define 'good'

 

Feels right in the hands and sounds good to the ear.  That's all a musician or listener needs.

 

If it also looks good to the eye, that's a bonus.

 

All of these have some degree of subjectivity to them, of course, but we'd all recognise a "bad" one and we'd all recognise a "very nice" one.

 

If modern developments fundamentally changed the sound quality, that would in effect change the nature of the instrument.  You can't "improve" something by simply making it into something else.  On the other hand, if you simply prefer the timbre of modern or vintage reeds, that is subjective.

 

Therefore, in my view, the only areas where modern developments could objectively improve on vintage would be durability and reliability.  However, good quality vintage instruments were durable and reliable already.