Hornpipe and polka rhythms?

[Peter Laban]

Hornpipes are widely used for certain figures of the sets around here, not just for solo dancing.  And as such they're widely and commonly danced.

[Wolf Molkentin]

11 minutes ago, Peter Laban said:

Hornpipes are widely used for certain figures of the sets around here, not just for solo dancing.  And as such they're widely and commonly danced.

 

Peter, I understand "here" is referring to Ireland. Would you say there's a common way of playing hornpipes in Ireland, and if so, do they in any case get a dotted playing?

 

Best wishes - ?

[Geoff Wooff]

19 minutes ago, Peter Laban said:

Hornpipes are widely used for certain figures of the sets around here, not just for solo dancing.  And as such they're widely and commonly danced.

 

 

To Clarify  what Peter is refering to here  are  'Sets'  of Quadrilles .  There are several ' Figures'  or sections for these dances  and musicians  use  Jigs ,Reels and Hornpipes etc. , as apropriate,  for each  figure.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Geoff Wooff

[adrian brown]

It seems like the term 'hornpipe' has meant different things to various different traditions over the last 500 odd years. However it is a much older dance term than the polka and seems to have always been associated with the British Isles. The triple-time hornpipe is probably oldest and in this great article, John Ward makes a distinction between the traditional “Lancashire” hornpipe and the “Dancing Master” hornpipes, so popular in the early 18th century. How this “tradition” morphed into the duple version is probably something that needs studying - are there any collections that include duple-time hornpipes before the 19th century? (The Clare manuscript must be the oldest collection that comes to my mind.)

Adrian

[wunks]

1 hour ago, adrian brown said:

It seems like the term 'hornpipe' has meant different things to various different traditions over the last 500 odd years. However it is a much older dance term than the polka and seems to have always been associated with the British Isles. The triple-time hornpipe is probably oldest and in this great article, John Ward makes a distinction between the traditional “Lancashire” hornpipe and the “Dancing Master” hornpipes, so popular in the early 18th century. How this “tradition” morphed into the duple version is probably something that needs studying - are there any collections that include duple-time hornpipes before the 19th century? (The Clare manuscript must be the oldest collection that comes to my mind.)

Adrian

In a thread "History of Hornpipes",  from The Session forum,  Ronald Ellison mentions Walsh's Tunes Book of 1730 from the Manchester Music Library.  He says it contains 25 Hornpipes in 3/2 but doesn't say if there are any in other time signatures.  The whole thread is an interesting read.

Edited November 13, 2018 by wunks
correction

[Roger Hare]

59 minutes ago, wunks said:

In a thread "History of Hornpipes",  from The Session forum,  Ronald Ellison mentions Walsh's Tunes Book of 1730 from the Manchester Music Library.  He says it contains 25 Hornpipes in 3/2 but doesn't say if there are any in other time signatures.  The whole thread is an interesting read.

 

I had a quick look. Interesting indeed. There is a pointer to what looks like an interesting article at:

 

http://www.academia.edu/1492605/The_triple_Time_Hornpipe.

 

I also found the following in the catalogue of the Henry Watson Music Library (I assume this is the

library mentioned, I also assume it's the same 'Walsh'):

 

A bibliography of the musical works published by John Walsh during the years 1695-1720

A bibliography of the musical works published by the firm of John Walsh during the years 1721-1766

 

I couldn't find the actual tune book in the catalogue, but I must try and suss it out next time I'm in. It may

be in the Reference section two floors further up, or in the rare books stack. The staff in this library are

always helpful, so if they  have it, they'll find it for me. They let me transcribe ''The Manchester Ship Canal

Waltz' from the original sheet music a few months ago (don't ask - I did it for a very laboured 'joke', the tune

itself is 'orrible).

 

Manchester Central Library is one of the world's great libraries! They have three pianos and a drum-kit in

the music library, and a table football game in the Business Library...

 

Roger

Edited November 13, 2018 by lachenal74693

[wunks]

15 hours ago, lachenal74693 said:

 

I had a quick look. Interesting indeed. There is a pointer to what looks like an interesting article at:

 

 http://www.academia.edu/1492605/The_triple_Time_Hornpipe.

  

 

This article is fascinating, especially the discussion of "grounds" and "divisions".  

[Roger Hare]

On ‎11‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 11:15 AM, wunks said:

This article is fascinating, especially the discussion of "grounds" and "divisions".  

 

There's another one here:

 

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=VoQXAQAAIAAJ

 

I can't remember if it was mentioned in the original Sessions thread, the mel.net thread, or somewhere else, so

I may be repeating what has gone before, but just in case, it also looks like good stuff. It's the Lancashire Hornpipe

paper starting on p.140...

 

Roger