Playing along with Guitar

[Kelteglow]

I am not very good at playing along with guitar players of which there are so many. I have been playing U Tube videos  and trying to accompany the songs .Its all ok until the Guitar player uses their Capo .For example I watch their hand position to see which cord they use ,so if say they are fingering the D Cord  I am ok until they capo up two semitones or more  which make cording on the Anglo more difficult.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Kelteglow

[Wolf Molkentin]

You don't say playing which chords you would be capable of. To identify them, you could just use any keyboard or picture of a keyboard; count the semitones and see the results. Or should you know the tonic you could see at which segment of the circle of fifths the six basic chords (resp. the chords used by the guitar player) would be and then decide if the tune is playable or not for you.

 

Hope that helps, best wishes - ?

[DickT]

Hi Bob,

 

A capo is used as an easy key change device. In the case you quote the guitarist has changed the key from D to E (up 2 frets) but, for their own convenience, is still able to use D chords. For following on a concertina you need to read the chords played and mentally transpose. The problem for an anglo is the increasing difficulty in accessing keys away from the home keys, even the EC gets difficult with more sharps and flats (for me anyway). I will be down in Penzance in Dec if you would like to talk about this more.

 

Dick.

[Don Taylor]

You could capture the Youtube video (there are several browser add-ons that do this) and then play it back through a program called Transcribe!.  Transcribe! will play back the audio and the video and allow you to transpose the audio into a key that works for you.  It does a lot of other stuff too.

[Mikefule]

The Anglo is designed to make 2 major keys easily accessible with chords.  In addition, it makes the related minors and modes easily accessible.  With sufficient buttons, practice and skill, you can add further keys, but the further round the cycle of 5ths you go, the thinner and less intuitive the chords become.

 

A capo shortens all of the guitar's strings by the same amount, effectively retuning the guitar.  If the guitarist puts the capo 2 frets up, then uses the same fingering as before, only moving his hand 2 frets up, he will be playing in a key a tone higher than before.  The Anglo player's equivalent of a capo is to pick up a different Anglo.

 

If you play single note style, it is easier to extend into further keys.

 

 

[Kelteglow]

Thanks for all your input .Yes I will have to listen to the Key being played to find the Tonic .What I was doing was looking at the finger patterns the guitar player was using as my guide..The easy key for a guitar is E not so good for a C/G concertina .My friends who play guitar often sympathise and play in a more compatible key which is fine..My example with which I started was the guitar playing in D and then capo two frets making obviously the cords of E .Often though and again for example they move one fret making say D to D# major or G to G#major and so on.Like most of you I love playing music .I have fewer problems  Playing for Morris ,Cornish Dance .Folk songs or Irish Style. If I get into a pub session often when I am playing  there will be a call for the concertina to "Take the tune and improvise" I don't find that easy  and sometimes have to decline the invitation more practice required ----I think I will need another lifetime to complete my education on the concertina.        PS Let me know when you are in PZ  Dick   .   Bob

[Wolf Molkentin]

I already thought of the key of E, which doesn't seem so common for playing folk music (rather coarsely strumming some very basic blues) - but if you in fact recognise the tonic as Emaj and the capo in the third fret, it would result in the very playable key of G... ?

[Bob Michel]

A guitar—especially with the aid of a capo—is much better suited than an Anglo concertina to playing full chords in all keys. So if you’re playing along with a guitarist, you can consider that duty covered; rather than simply trying to double what s/he is doing, you can explore styles of playing that apply the strengths of your own instrument.

 

While big chords certainly have their place, I think the Anglo’s real forte is understatement: less is usually more. With a guitarist on board, someone else is doing the heavy lifting, and you’re free to fool around. Instead of trying to duplicate that booming E chord, try doubling the melody, or improvising from it. Or work out a single-note harmony line. Or invent a lovely countermelody. Or alternate a simple drone harmony (one or two notes) with runs and fills.

 

We have no capos, so every key will be different, and the further you stray from your home keys of C and G the weirder and more challenging your scales and chords will become. But it’s always possible, and it’s always interesting.

 

Bob Michel

Near Philly

[rlgph]

This is a job for ... a Hayden duet! ?

[wunks]

On 10/27/2018 at 7:20 AM, Bob Michel said:

A guitar—especially with the aid of a capo—is much better suited than an Anglo concertina to playing full chords in all keys. So if you’re playing along with a guitarist, you can consider that duty covered; rather than simply trying to double what s/he is doing, you can explore styles of playing that apply the strengths of your own instrument.

 

While big chords certainly have their place, I think the Anglo’s real forte is understatement: less is usually more. With a guitarist on board, someone else is doing the heavy lifting, and you’re free to fool around. Instead of trying to duplicate that booming E chord, try doubling the melody, or improvising from it. Or work out a single-note harmony line. Or invent a lovely countermelody. Or alternate a simple drone harmony (one or two notes) with runs and fills.

 

We have no capos, so every key will be different, and the further you stray from your home keys of C and G the weirder and more challenging your scales and chords will become. But it’s always possible, and it’s always interesting.

 

Bob Michel

Near Philly

Maybe this is a good place to suggest a method of playing that can enhance and add interest, but may seem heretical to some.  As I've progressed in my playing of the Jeffries duet, I've found that tunes sound different and some sound better (To me at least) when the instrument is swapped end for end and played upside down.  The fingering patterns are basically the same with a few variations but my right brain (left hand) comes up with different harmonies, internal rhythms and tempos.  This also seems to solve some of the problem (for me) of playing in the higher register.  Additionally, some keys away from the center (C on my instrument) are easier to play.  I don't see that this is doable on an EC without modification of the grip system but it may work for other duets and I'm thinking anglos as well, which is why I've posted it here.  Forgive me if this has been covered in other threads. 

[Lofty]

21 minutes ago, wunks said:

Maybe this is a good place to suggest a method of playing that can enhance and add interest, but may seem heretical to some.  As I've progressed in my playing of the Jeffries duet, I've found that tunes sound different and some sound better (To me at least) when the instrument is swapped end for end and played upside down.  The fingering patterns are basically the same with a few variations but my right brain (left hand) comes up with different harmonies, internal rhythms and tempos.  This also seems to solve some of the problem (for me) of playing in the higher register.  Additionally, some keys away from the center (C on my instrument) are easier to play.  I don't see that this is doable on an EC without modification of the grip system but it may work for other duets and I'm thinking anglos as well, which is why I've posted it here.  Forgive me if this has been covered in other threads. 

I have played a MacCann the wrong way round, simply by not paying attention when I picked it up. I thought it felt a bit funny, but it worked.

 

I’m not sure that it sounded any better though: I am a beginner. It certainly sounded different.

 

Steve

[wunks]

13 minutes ago, Lofty said:

I have played a MacCann the wrong way round, simply by not paying attention when I picked it up. I thought it felt a bit funny, but it worked.

 

I’m not sure that it sounded any better though: I am a beginner. It certainly sounded different.

 

Steve

Same way I "discovered"  this.  I'm a beginner on concertina also but a long time musician (by ear) so I have the music in my head already, which may be why it works for me.

[Wolf Molkentin]

1 hour ago, wunks said:

I don't see that this is doable on an EC without modification of the grip system

 

Due to my lack of knowledge re playing a Duet concertina I'm not sure about my understanding your post. As to the EC I can say that I'm playing my instruments rotated by 60 degrees if possible (with the Aeola, it has to be just 45 degrees then for obvious reasons, as 90 degrees would be exceeding my ability of easily reaching all the buttons, if needed simoultaneously two or three of them on one end).

 

This approach is essential for my "harmonic" style. However, Simon Thoumire, who is mainly playing melody lines, is doing a similar thing (maybe even to a greater extent).

 

Best wishes - ?

[wunks]

38 minutes ago, Wolf Molkentin said:

 

Due to my lack of knowledge re playing a Duet concertina I'm not sure about my understanding your post. As to the EC I can say that I'm playing my instruments rotated by 60 degrees if possible (with the Aeola, it has to be just 45 degrees then for obvious reasons, as 90 degrees would be exceeding my ability of easily reaching all the buttons, if needed simoultaneously two or three of them on one end).

 

This approach is essential for my "harmonic" style. However, Simon Thoumire, who is mainly playing melody lines, is doing a similar thing (maybe even to a greater extent).

 

Best wishes - ?

I'm suggesting turning the instrument end for end vertically to play the conventional right hand side with the left hand.  The thumb loops and pinky rests would be inverted on an EC.  Let's call it Brobdingnagion style if you will.  ? 

[Wolf Molkentin]

55 minutes ago, wunks said:

I'm suggesting turning the instrument end for end vertically to play the conventional right hand side with the left hand.  The thumb loops and pinky rests would be inverted on an EC.  Let's call it Brobdingnagion style if you will.  ? 

 

O.k., this had been my initial understanding too, but then I deemed that all too bold... ?

[wunks]

8 hours ago, Wolf Molkentin said:

 

O.k., this had been my initial understanding too, but then I deemed that all too bold... ?

Wolf, sounds like an opportunity for a new thread,  I'll start it in the morning.