expanded: button layout options on 20b vs. 30b Anglo

[Wolf Molkentin]

Hi Adrian,

 

thank you for chiming in (I hoped you would) and providing your insightful thoughts on „my“ modification which I will consider.

 

As to the nomenclature it seems that I have to apologize once again - I didn’t mean to be disrespectful and agree from what I’ve been watching over the years. Despite my own preferring dots and chord symbols I can value the effort and elegant solution and am sure it‘s immensly helpful too.

 

I will follow your suggestion in further posts I promise.

 

Best wishes - ?

 

Edited October 29, 2018 by Wolf Molkentin
grammar

[adrian brown]

On 10/28/2018 at 11:50 AM, Wolf Molkentin said:

Hi Adrian,

 

As to the nomenclature it seems that I have to apologize once again - I didn’t mean to be disrespectful and agree from what I’ve been watching over the years. Despite my own preferring dots and chord symbols I can value the effort and elegant solution and am sure it‘s immensly helpful too.

 

I will follow your suggestion in further posts I promise.

 

Best wishes - ?

 

 

No apologies needed Wolf - I just wanted to make the point that it's a lot easier to understand each other if we are all singing from the same hymn book! And actually, my comment has nothing to do with music notation as such, be they dots symbols or tabs, only a wish to identify which of the multitude of buttons on our instruments is being discussed.

 

Thanks, and hope to see you again soon,

 

Adrian

[March Hare]

Always great to see posts on the 20 key anglo.  It is a wonderful and joyous instrument, and under-rated so cruelly.

I think that we need a fine musician to show what can be done with the 20 key, a bit like the maestro John K has stunned us for years with superb tunes and songs with the basic Hohner Pokerwork and one-row melodeon.

It is a great instrument, not just for learners and novelty stuff.  

BTW can I add that I find the pull C (LH little finger on the inner row) very useful: lovely chord change on the G row LH buttons 6 8 10 from pull to push (nice wide Am to G maj in first inversion).   Also good for the root of a pull C chord.  And it works ok at the bottom of the D7 chord when a tune moves into G.   After all, Lachenal made many tens of thousands of 20 key anglos in this standard layout.

Perhaps it is time for the humble 20 key to have a higher profile.

Best wishes to all, Steve

 

[Wolf Molkentin]

Hi Steve, I couldn’t agree more, albeit from limited experience with the Anglo as yet.

 

Interesting to read your supporting the low C on the pull - I agree (didn’t find it useless) but felt I would need the A more...  (as a lover of open fifths I‘m happily using the same chord change for an even wider spread but open/ambiguous A chord).

 

Best wishes - ?

 

Edited October 31, 2018 by Wolf Molkentin
typos

[Wolf Molkentin]

first steps with 30b G/D, widening the topic somehow (again talking about LHS button 6, Coover tab notation)

 

my (19th century) instrument has the D-row on the LHS perfectly mirroring the G-row. Albeit I would have preferred a push F# I won‘t touch the beautiful lower D reed, even if redundant (I might have been inclined to simply remove some solder, but none of the reeds is weighted at present).

 

however, on the pull the lowest note is an (as well redundant) A (D in C/G thinking, the „highest“ possible option). Instead of taking it down to E (like I did with my higher-pitched 20b instruments; of course A resp. G in their cases) I tend to just take it down (which as always can be achieved by adding solder) to G (the Lachenal choice which this Lachenal has not applied in the first instance, C for a C/G), because on a three-row it would help to form a beautiful low C-major chord (F maj on a C/G) that way, wouldn’t it?

 

I would still miss the low pull E then, but - as opposed to the 20b - E min (A min on a C/G instrument) can be played on the push here, which appears to be a very fine option in its own right.

 

thanks everyone for (hopefully) chiming in... ?

 

Edited May 10, 2019 by Wolf Molkentin
erroneously indicated notes corrected - the transposing thing can be confusing, but only on paper or screen :)

[Wolf Molkentin]

When playing in the harmonic style, the 30b occurs as sort of a revelation - as for me at the least - not with providing the „missing“ accidentals nor the duplications in different directions but the two added low notes! E and F, or in my case (and all the more, I guess) B and C, under button 1a!!

 

Everyone have a nice WE ?

[Anglo-Irishman]

15 hours ago, Wolf Molkentin said:

the 30b occurs as sort of a revelation  ... the two added low notes! E and F

Yes indeed! I play a lot in C major on my C/G, and I would say that the left-hand 1a is the most frequntly-used button in the outer row. A good, solid F chord (the subdominant of C) is really essential to me.

What I sorely miss, however, is a press Bb, which would give me an equally resounding C7 chord to lead to the solid F. My Bandoneon has a press F in its LH G-row, which alternates with a draw C. I wish the Anglo had something equivalent!

 

Cheers,

John

[Wolf Molkentin]

On 5/9/2019 at 9:24 PM, Wolf Molkentin said:

however, on the pull the lowest note is an (as well redundant) A (D in C/G thinking, the „highest“ possible option). Instead of taking it down to E (like I did with my higher-pitched 20b instruments; of course A resp. G in their cases) I tend to just take it down (which as always can be achieved by adding solder) to G (the Lachenal choice which this Lachenal has not applied in the first instance, C for a C/G), because on a three-row it would help to form a beautiful low C-major chord (F maj on a C/G) that way, wouldn’t it?

 

By playing experience over some days now another nice thing occurs from having the pull G (root of the middle row; C on a  C/G) under button LHS 6: in the dominant (D maj, which would be G maj on a C/G) you get a very nice suspended fourth, to be resolved to the third (or fifth) as sort of a passage from the tonic to the dominant at the end of a run/verse/chorus, discovered by accident because it falls so naturally under the fingers as the little finger had been on the G (C) before anyway.

 

Best wishes - ?

 

Edited May 15, 2019 by Wolf Molkentin

[Wolf Molkentin]

now back to the 20b (will use the Bb/F for accompaniment of my own singing voice, as B appears to function as the happy medium between G and C, but will indicate note values for C/G to avoid confusion):

 

the „dutch reversal“ thing, as before:

have button 4a in the place of 5 (just by swapping the reed shoes)

 

the debatable „lowest“ button on the G row: my choice would now be A/Bb over G/D or B/A,

i.e. have button 2a in the place of 6 (just needing a tad of solder for both reeds or at least one of them, as long as you have no low G, of course)

 

=> preferring the push over the pull Amin, for improved interchangeability with the 30(+)b, and have the important lower Bb - thank you Mike and Adrian for the resp. hints - of the Bb „chord“ / open fifth in the a descending progression from D min: C (maj) - Bb (maj) - A (min) resp. back to C (maj), for Playford and stuff, f.i. The Black Nag...

 

in general I can say: I would miss these important buttons (2a and 4a) rather than stumble over their unusual placement...

 

what do fellow sonopneumaticists think?

 

best wishes - 🐺

 

Edited May 18, 2023 by Wolf Molkentin