When (and in what way) did reeds change from "concertina" to "accordion" style?

[natevw]

I understand that there is a distinction between "concertina reeds" and "accordion reeds", which if I'm not mistaken is mostly a matter of layout. As far as I can tell the design is essentially the same in that with both, each reed or pair of reeds is attached to a metal plate. The main difference being somewhat the size of that plate, but primarily how/where the plate is attached to the concertina? With accordion style the plates are "standard" large rectangles that usually need to be arranged in a block that sticks in to the bellows area, whereas the smaller concertina plates usually can be arranged all on a surface parallel to the outer end plates/handles. At some point the accordion style reeds/plates became easier and cheaper for manufacturers to get a hold of and most concertinas now are made that way.

 

If I'm even understanding the situation properly, my main question is really: at what point did that change happen? Presumedly if I buy a new entry-level concertina now it would have accordion style reeds. What about the many vintage boxes (my guess would be 1950's/60's era?) available on eBay for a few hundred dollars — do those still have the old-style reed arrangements?

[Bill N]

I'll leave aside the question of the differences between the 2 types of reeds except to say that there are many significant differences  in construction, layout, attachment and behaviour.  You should be able to search the archives for some in-depth discussion.

 

The German style concertina has always used accordion style reeds.  The  Italian and East German instruments that you can find on eBay (Scholer, Silvetta, Stagi, Hohner, etc) are constructed more like an accordion than a traditional English-style concertina, and use accordion reeds. I have a German-style concertina made for the English retailer Henry Harley (my avatar pic) which was made in the 1870s using both individual and gang-mounted accordion style reeds.

 

Traditional English-style concertinas (Anglo, English & Duet systems) have a more sophisticated button mechanism, and with very few exceptions used the traditional concertina reed for most of their history.  There were some experiments in the 1950s and 60s with different reed construction to lower the price, and Wheatstone produced the Mayfair line, which used a hybrid of the English style construction and action, and accordion reeds, but these weren't popular and weren't in production for very long.

 

Modern hybrids, which combine very high quality instrument construction and top grade accordion style reeds mounted parallel to the reed plates (Morse, Edgley, Herrington, Tedrow, etc.) are a pretty recent development, maybe making their appearance around 20 years ago?

 

None of the original English-style makers are still in business (Wheatstone nominally continues as a one man operation with very low production) but there are a number of modern makers building instruments with traditional reeds ( Kensington, Dipper, Carroll, Edgley etc)

 

And even more recent is the beginner hybrid like the Rochelle, which combines English-style design, accordion reeds and economical materials and labour to provide a budget, playable instrument.

 

I'm sure others will chime in.

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by Bill N
typos

[Steve_freereeder]

On 10/9/2018 at 11:26 PM, Bill N said:

...None of the original English-style makers are still in business (Wheatstone nominally continues as a one man operation with very low production) but there are a number of modern makers building instruments with traditional reeds ( Kensington, Dipper, Carroll, Edgley etc)....

 

The Dippers (Colin and Rosalie) are English! They are based in rural Wiltshire in the south of England.

[Peter Laban]

Quote

The Dippers (Colin and Rosalie) are English! They are based in rural Wiltshire in the south of England.

 

 

I don't think anyone doubted that  for a second (or said/implied they weren't)

[Bill N]

By "original English-style makers" I meant Lachenal, Jeffries, etc.  I referred to the Dippers as modern makers of traditionally constructed instruments. I've met the Dippers, and if they were part of the 1st wave of builders, they are remarkably well preserved ?

 

 

Edited October 14, 2018 by Bill N

[Steve_freereeder]

2 hours ago, Bill N said:

By "original English-style makers" I meant Lachenal, Jeffries, etc.  I referred to the Dippers as modern makers of traditionally constructed instruments. I've met the Dippers, and if they were part of the 1st wave of builders, they are remarkably well preserved ?

 

 

Ah - OK, I see what you mean now. I misunderstood your post, sorry. 

[Anglo-Irishman]

On 10/9/2018 at 8:10 PM, natevw said:

I understand that there is a distinction between "concertina reeds" and "accordion reeds", which if I'm not mistaken is mostly a matter of layout. As far as I can tell the design is essentially the same in that with both, each reed or pair of reeds is attached to a metal plate. The main difference being somewhat the size of that plate, but primarily how/where the plate is attached to the concertina? With accordion style the plates are "standard" large rectangles that usually need to be arranged in a block that sticks in to the bellows area, whereas the smaller concertina plates usually can be arranged all on a surface parallel to the outer end plates/handles.

Hello, natevw,

And welcome to the Forum!

Just to complete your picture of the free-reed cosmos, there are actually three types of reed: German concertina style, English concertina style, and accordion style.

 

German concertina reeds (as still familiar to Bandonoen aficionados - the Bandoneon is one of several types of German concertina) are arranged on large zinc plates, ten reeds to a plate with five on each side, so each plate serves a row of five buttons on the press and the draw. The plates are nailed in place, and can be mounted either on reed-banks that protrude into the bellows space, or (for single-voiced instruments) on chambers that are  flat against the ends.

 

Accordion reeds are mounted in pairs, one on either side of a rectangular plate, and are usually waxed into reed-banks in accordions, but may be screwed to the reed-pan of a hybrid concertina. As has been mentioned, later German and Italian hybrid concertinas also have accordion reeds in reed-banks .

 

English concertina reeds are fitted one to a plate (which is called the "shoe" in this case). The shoe is slightly tapered, so that it fits snugly in a housing milled into the edge of the reed-pan. Wax or screws are not necessary.

 

There are, of course, differences in quality in all types, and in the English type, various materials are used for both reeds and shoes. Also, Bandoneonistas, English/Anglo concertinists and accordionists each prefer a different timbre. So not every accordion reed will be suitable for a hybrid concertina or Bandoneon.

 

In the course of the 20th century, the demand for both traditional English and traditional German concertinas declined, and manufacturing reeds for them was no longer profitable. But the accordion remained popular, and reeds for it are still (almost) a mass-produced commodity. Traditional concertina reeds now have to be made by hand or in small series, so they are more expensive. The modern Hybrid - an English-style concertina with accordion reeds - is a way to produce a decent-sounding concertina at a more moderate price. Basically, apart from the reeds, modern Hybrid concertinas differ no more from traditional concertinas than these do from each other.

There still are concertina-makers producing new Anglos and ECs with traditional reeds, but these are priced accordingly.

 

Cheers,

John

[natevw]

Thanks, Bill and John especially for the detailed answers! It sounds like the transition doesn't have a specific tipping point (such as "post-WWII" or "in the 20's" or anything…) but basically went along with growing demand for cheap instruments wherever and as often as it happened?

 

(Unsurprisingly the "vintage" Bastari I bought on eBay does indeed have accordion-style reeds in blocks, and other evidences of mass production.)

Edited October 18, 2018 by natevw

[Wolf Molkentin]

9 minutes ago, natevw said:

(Unsurprisingly the "vintage" Bastari I bought on eBay does indeed have accordion-style reeds in blocks, and other evidences of mass production.)

 

Yes, no one of us would call that a "vintage" instrument I reckon.... ?

[Daniel Hersh]

On 10/18/2018 at 10:06 AM, natevw said:

Thanks, Bill and John especially for the detailed answers! It sounds like the transition doesn't have a specific tipping point (such as "post-WWII" or "in the 20's" or anything…) but basically went along with growing demand for cheap instruments wherever and as often as it happened?

 

The problem here is that "the transition" isn't quite what happened.  Bastari and its successors Stagi and Brunner have always used accordion reeds.  The old-line English makers always used concertina reeds (except for Wheatstone's fairly short-lived Mayfair line).  The German makers used long-plate/ganged reeds (which were not exactly accordion reeds or English-style concertina reeds) roughly until WW2, and the one or two that were around after that used accordion reeds.  The newer hybrid/mid-range makers (Morse, Edgley, etc.) have used accordion reeds all along but use English-style construction methods in most other respects.  And the new vintage-style lines (Suttner, Carroll, etc.) have used concertina reeds all along,

 

"The growing demand for cheap instruments" isn't quite right either.  There has always been a demand for cheap German/Anglo concertinas, going back I believe to the 1850's.  It was first met by German makers, then by Italian ones and more recently by Chinese ones as well, including Concertina Connection's Rochelle/Jackie/etc. line which is Chinese-made but under the direction of Wim Wakker in the US.