Creeping Reed Shoe

[Noel Ways]

Hello,

 

I have some reed shoes that slowly creep out of their slots resulting in a bit of rattling or buzzing.

 

Wally Carrol has a useful video that addresses this.  I will put the link below.

He suggests "Veneer Tape".  But before I do this I wanted to ask if anyone else has had

this issue and how they addressed it to keep the shoe snug and in place.

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2018 by Noel Ways

[Chris Ghent]

Noel,

this is not uncommon and is usually due to humidity changes altering the wood, shrinking or expanding it. Shimming with paper would be the standard fix though placing the shim all the way along one side of the frame would be my first choice because it is likely the wood has retreated right along. Wally's reed slots have a more complex shape than most I see and this may account for his method. I would suggest using a paper which is well compressed because a strong joint between frame and pan helps the tone. If I get a loose frame and I suspect a humidity change I do not glue the paper in as I am hoping in time the situation might resolve itself and I will be able to remove it. If I do finally decide to glue it in I place two tiny smears of glue on the wood, one at the tip end and one at the root end, never in the middle beside the reed. 

[Geoff Wooff]

  Cigarette  rolling  papers  are suitable for this  shimming job.  They come in various thicknesses   ,but  0.01mm   or  0.0005"  is about medium weight.   One could use the gummed   edge  to  glue the strip to the  wood. 

Edited August 8, 2018 by Geoff Wooff

[alex_holden]

The veneer tape is a nice idea. I'll have to search for my roll of the stuff! Normally I use a strip of white paper cut from a notepad and a small amount of PVA. I don't recommend shimming only in one spot at the clamp end - I've encountered some instruments where that was done, and the shim stopped the reed falling out but the tip of the frame was still loose and able to vibrate. Sometimes after shimming you find that the reed won't sound or makes a horrible buzzy tinkly noise, because the shim has pressed the side of the frame in and caused the tongue to interfere with the edge of the slot. If that happens you may need to remove the middle part of the shim, just leaving two small pieces alongside the tip and clamp.

[Theo]

Post it notes make good shim material.   Use the gummed edge and the shim will stay in place, but is still easy to remove.

[OLDNICKILBY]

Do not make the shim too tight or the reed will cease to sound

[Frank Edgley]

You might try a dab of rubber cement applied with a toothpick instead of a paper shim. It will not cause any difficulty to remove the reed when needed; will not cause buzzing as it compresses infinitely; and is not permanent. i.e. it does not form a permanent bond to the wood and can easily be wiped or rubbed off at any time in the future.

[gcoover]

I've found an easy fix is to cut a long thin strip of paper, either regular or that light card stock from magazine inserts, about 1/8" wide and maybe 2" or 3" long - place it along one side of the dovetail, slide the reed shoe in, and then just break off the end of the paper strip.

 

Gary

[SteveS]

On 8/8/2018 at 7:05 AM, Geoff Wooff said:

  Cigarette  rolling  papers  are suitable for this  shimming job.  They come in various thicknesses   ,but  0.01mm   or  0.0005"  is about medium weight.   One could use the gummed   edge  to  glue the strip to the  wood. 

The only sort of smokers requistes i buy

[Geoff Wooff]

23 hours ago, SteveS said:

The only sort of smokers requistes i buy

 

 

I guess  in some cultures  one might be  thought a drug smoker  when buying papers  but not tobacco, but one packet  will  last  a very long time... and one could always  buy them  in an 'out of town'  establishment  if one's  sensibilities preclude  local purchase.

 

For the minimal amount of   wood movement  normally  found  in the better  vintage  instruments   it would be hard to find a  thinner  material  readily  available.

Edited August 11, 2018 by Geoff Wooff

[Anglo-Irishman]

On 8/10/2018 at 3:21 PM, SteveS said:

The only sort of smokers requistes i buy

Just couldn't resist this one ...

 

A man walked into a tobacconist's shop and said, "I'd like a white shirt."

The assistant replied, rather perplexed, "But we only sell requisites for smokers!"

The customer nodded and smiled reassuringly: "I am a smoker!"

 

Ducks and runs for cover ...

Edited August 11, 2018 by Anglo-Irishman

[d.elliott]

I think that fag papers are too hard for this short of shimming, I just use normal printing paper with the wood side face soaked in Gum Arabic. I usually ship as close to the reed clamp as possible and then at the toe of the reed frame, on the flank but not encroaching too much along the length taken up by the vent

 

Dave

[Noel Ways]

Hi Dave,

 

I'm trying to visualize how you would place the paper.  Are you saying to

attach a thin paper using gum arabic along only one side of the reed slot,

and make sure that it does not intrude on any other surface?

 

I have never heard of the term "reed clamp" before.

 

Thanks

[alex_holden]

9 hours ago, Noel Ways said:

I have never heard of the term "reed clamp" before.

 

The clamp is the small piece of metal with two holes in it at the fixed (heel) end of the reed.

[d.elliott]

Thanks Alex, yes the clamp is the bar that clamps the reed tongue into the frame at the widest part of the reed frame or shoe.

 

If you look at a reed assembly there is a vent or slot that runs under the reed tongue allowing it to vibrate freely (free reed) at each end of the vent the shoe is solid and any sideways compression cannot squeeze the reed frame into the path of the reed tongue. Any shims are place between the flank of the reed frame and the edge of the slot, but on the 'strong areas' of the reed frame.

 

Some times I glue a strip of paper full length and than cut out the bit parallel with the vent, some times it just needs a bit of paper at the clamp end, some times I use a bit of thick wood shaving and re-cut the reedpan slot side.  Often you will see that a reed pan slot has been eased in manufacture, particularly on bigger reeds, where on first set up the pressure on the reed frame caused a problem

 

Dave

[Noel Ways]

Got it!  Thank you, Alex and Dave !