English Wrist Straps

[otsaku]

Arghh all this googling is taking away valuable learning time...

 

Today I turned my finger plates around to see if that would give my small hands a better reach - it did.

 

But now I'm faced with a tendency for the little finger on my right hand to slip from under the plate - grrrrrrr

 

I thought about turning the plates round again and moving them backward but I'm loathed to make a new hole and on top of that have a visible hole in the end plate.

 

So remembering someone posting about wrist straps on their english I went on a google hunt - without any luck and as far as I can see there aren't any wrist straps listed on any of the sites selling spares... of course I might have missed something.

 

Anyways if anyone can tell me where I can aquire a pair I'd be grateful.

[Stephen Chambers]

... remembering someone posting about wrist straps on their english I went on a google hunt - without any luck and as far as I can see there aren't any wrist straps listed on any of the sites selling spares... of course I might have missed something.

 

Anyways if anyone can tell me where I can aquire a pair I'd be grateful.

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otsaku,

 

Try C. Wheatstone & Co. who list them for £14.43 here on their website.

 

However, you could probably make up a pair from leather strapping (or an old, narrow belt) to try out. They have not been commonly used on English concertinas, and seem to have only been introduced, by Wheatstone's, in the 1920's, but they certainly seem to give more "leverage" on larger instruments like my tenor-treble.

[JimLucas]

...remembering someone posting about wrist straps on their english  ... if anyone can tell me where I can aquire a pair I'd be grateful.

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I personally don't favor wrist straps, but if you're set on using them, I'll do my best to help.

 

I don't think it's as simple as just adding whatever wrist straps you can find. Your Jackie isn't the same size as an Æola (the only concertinas I've seen with wrist straps), nor even the same shape (hexagonal vs. octagonal), so you have to be careful to get the right size and to mount them in the right location.

 

If you're going to the SULA concert tonight, we could talk there, and I'll try to bring an example. (I'll private email about the concert.)

[Stephen Chambers]

I personally don't favor wrist straps ...

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I would never bother with them on a regular 6 1/4" treble, but I do feel that they make my 7 1/4" tenor-treble easier to play. (Isn't that about the same size as a Jackie ?)

 

Mind you, looking at a photograph of a Jackie on the Concertina Connection website, it seems that the fingerplates (maybe the thumbstraps too ?) are much furthur away from the buttons than is normal, perhaps the real solution to your problem might lie in moving them closer ?

 

I don't think it's as simple as just adding whatever wrist straps you can find.  Your Jackie isn't the same size as an Æola (the only concertinas I've seen with wrist straps), nor even the same shape (hexagonal vs. octagonal), so you have to be careful to get the right size and to mount them in the right location.

If you are going to buy ready-made ones I believe they only come in a "one size fits all", but they were often fitted to better-quality hexagonal Wheatstone's in the 1920's, not just Æolas.

[JimLucas]

I personally don't favor wrist straps ...

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I would never bother with them on a regular 6 1/4" treble, but I do feel that they make my 7 1/4" tenor-treble easier to play. (Isn't that about the same size as a Jackie ?)

Almost exactly. For myself, I have tried them and abandoned them on tenor-trebles and even my baritone-treble. And neither my bass nor contrabass has them, nor I do I feel any need for them.

 

Stephen, could you tell me/us how you use them? If they're not just hanging loose, you must be exerting tension on them to accomplish or aid certain manipulations. Which manipulations, and in what direction do you press the straps -- and with what part of your hand/wrist/arm, -- to accomplish those manipulations?

 

Mind you, looking at a photograph of a Jackie on the Concertina Connection website, it seems that the fingerplates (maybe the thumbstraps too ?) are much further away from the buttons than is normal, perhaps the real solution to your problem might lie in moving them closer ?

An interesting point, and one I'm embarrassed for not noticing. The finger plate is about 1,5 cm distant on the Jackie, and the thumb strap (harder to measure, because of the leather) about 1,3 cm, while both distances are very close to 1 cm on my Wheatstones and Lachenals. That makes the separation wider by about 5/8", or an additional 80%. I apparently adjusted without noticing, and so assumed that those measurements -- like the size and spacing of the buttons themselves -- were the same as on the vintage instruments.

 

If you are going to buy ready-made ones I believe they only come in a "one size fits all"....

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I believe those on my baritone-treble are longer than on tenor-trebles (for which I don't have an example handy at the moment). The larger ends (8-3/4") alone would seem to force a greater distance between the mounting points while still allowing room for the wrist. However, it's quite likely that anyone currently supplying them as an off-the-shelf item is only stocking one size.

[Ken_Coles]

Well, I guess I have weaker wrists and forearms than most of you. I mostly play anglo, but dabble with EC. I have a clunky old Lachenal. Because it is not an heirloom, I saw little harm in modifying it to fit my needs. I had Bob Snope (Chief Tech at Button Box) put wrist straps on. He added the the two mounting screws and cut straps from leather (were talking an ordinary-sized treble here). The brass and dark leather fit right and and look tasteful. It has made all the difference for me, but I'm not typical (who is).

 

Talk to any experienced repair person about the options.

[Greg Jowaisas]

I have a T/T Edeophone that came to me with screw sets in place for wrist straps.

I bought leather this week to make straps.

 

The way this instrument "balances" for me is quite different than the treble that I play. My arthritic thumbs really feel the difference on the draw. I believe the wrist straps will take a bit of the load off the thumbs and make draw notes more comfortable on this instrument. I'll report back on the results once the straps are done.

 

Couple of thoughts:

 

We are all learning as we go. There is presently no "Segovia" school or method of concertina playing. Those lucky enough to have contact with experienced players can see technique and method first hand. Others use information sources like this forum. In the end we take what fits and apply it to our individual needs.

 

Players hand sizes, finger and wrist and arm and chest strength vary quite a lot.

I'm not providing an excuse poor technique or bad habits but suggesting that "one size" or solution does not fit all.

 

With a concertina population where the average age is likely increasing (We are getting older and hopefully smarter!) playing techniques and instrument accomedations (wrist straps, hand bar modifications) may be useful adaptions to changing physical realities.

 

I think the important things are to work on good technique and to keep exploring ways to play the instrument in a healthy and enjoyable manner for many years to come.

 

Regards,

 

Greg

[otsaku]

thanks for all the replies.

 

the spacing of the straps and finger rests isn't something i'd considered.

 

Now that I've swapped them round I've got a much better reach to get to the lower keys but supporting the weight even sitting down is nigh on impossible and I'm getting a wobble on the pull - plus I've now got problems exerting a constant pressure on the keys.

 

I'm thinking about getting some larger keys ( wider diameter and taller )- which ofcourse would mean expanding the present key holes.

 

I'm not gonna criticise the jackie at all but for my small hands me thinks it's gonna be needing some modification before I can hold it properly and play at the same time.

 

Jim and I already talked about wrist straps and I can see the point he makes against them but I'm thinking they might go part way to negating the modifications I'm thinking of.

 

 

On top of all of the above I'm starting to think that I need to get narrower thumb straps too

[JimLucas]

I have a T/T Edeophone...

The way this instrument "balances" for me is quite different than the treble that I play.  My arthritic thumbs really feel the difference on the draw.  I believe the wrist straps will take a bit of the load off the thumbs and make draw notes more comfortable on this instrument.  I'll report back on the results once the straps are done.

Note that even if this does help you, Greg, it may be unnecessary for someone without arthritis. After all, crutches may be helpful to someone with a broken ankle, but are more often liability than an advantage to someone with unhindered mobility.

 

There is presently no "Segovia" school or method of concertina playing. ...

I think the important things are to work on good technique...

But without such a "school", how to know what constitutes "good technique"?

 

...keep exploring ways to play the instrument in a healthy and enjoyable manner...

That's definitely part of it. And we talk to each other here, sometimes disagreeing, but I hope those disagreements help highlight areas where experimentation is important in determining "what's right for you".

 

Players hand sizes, finger and wrist and arm and chest strength vary quite a lot.  I'm not providing an excuse poor technique or bad habits but suggesting that "one size" or solution does not fit all.

While that's true, it shouldn't be confused with the idea each individual requires a custom size or solution. The human body is admirably constructed for adjustment and adaptation. Mandolins and guitars are very different in every significant dimension, yet people of all sizes play each... and in many cases, both.

 

And I think that as an instrument the English concertina is particularly well adapted to people with different sizes of hands. The two-point support allows great flexibility in positioning the hand... and in varying its position. I can flex my wrists to pull my hands back into an arched configuration for playing the "low" buttons, or flatten them forward to reach the "high" buttons, with room for even more movement in both directions, even on a 64-button instrument. I can play the buttons of any row with any finger... even my little finger, though I rarely do remove it from the finger plate. I regularly shift my little finger foward and back under the finger plate, and while I tend not to change the insertion of my thumb into the loop -- only the tips, so that I can employ the flexibility of both joints, -- I've seen Alistair Anderson vary that parameter, as well.

 

With a concertina population where the average age is likely increasing (We are getting older and hopefully smarter!)...

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Each of us is getting older, of course, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the average is increasing. If an older member dies (not a thought to cheer us, but it's expected to happen to each of us, eventually), then the average goes down. Probably more significant is that there are many relatively new concertina players, and not of them are geezers. We have examples of younger generations right here (Rhomylly, Tina, and I'm sure others). And in the past few years I have personally helped at least five individuals get started: Two are in high school, two at university level, and the fifth is still younger than 35. Some of our own kids and infants may yet take up the concertina and bring the average down even further.

[Sandy Winters]

On a push I believe that most players use the thumb as well as the pinky and fleshy portion (heel??) of their hand/palm for pushing force. I know I do. So why not assist the thumb on the draw, since the pinky and palm are now of little use??

 

I've always used wrist straps on EC. Both of my Wheatstones had/have them as original equipment, 30's era hexagonal metal-ended and 50's era metal-ended Aeola. I keep them adjusted to pass over the back of my hand about halfway between the bottom joint of my thumb and wrist. Of course they are completely slack on a 'push', but tight enough to not flop around. On a draw they are tight enough that the hand barely changes position before the force of the draw is equally distributed between the thumb and back of the hand.

 

My thumb is essentially used much more for orientation than push/pull force.

 

There are lots of photos of Boris Matusawitz (sp?) using wrist straps. I don't believe it was just for *acrobatic* playing.

Edited February 19, 2005 by Sandy Winters

[otsaku]

Some of our own kids and infants may yet take up the concertina and bring the average down even further.

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well my two year old's interest grows daily

[John Wild]

Many years ago, the first 'good' concertina I had was fitted with wrist straps. The right-hand strap was so worn that I removed it. I used the left-hand strap initially for balance, and a feeling of security(!) when I was playing standing up, which I found difficult in the early days. Later, I found it got in the way and removed it as well, though I kept it for the next buyer when I sold it on.

 

Apart from the Hayden duet concertina which I have been trying for a number of years, this is the only instrument I have played with wrist straps. I still find, coming from an English concertina origin, that playing Standing up with wrist straps is difficult.

 

- John Wild

[JimLucas]

Many years ago, the first 'good' concertina I had [an English] was fitted with wrist straps. ... Apart from the Hayden duet concertina which I have been trying for a number of years, this is the only instrument I have played with wrist straps.

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Wrist straps on a Hayden? In addition to the hand straps that are the main means of holding it?

[nils]

I use wrist straps on my very heavy bariton treble Aeola. Because of the weight this concertina needs all the power you have for dynamic playing. It's very comfortible this way especially when I play it standing up.

 

Who of You has heard and seen Sandra Kerr? I think her wonderfull playing depends on using wrist straps.

 

Nils

[d.elliott]

I have wrist straps on my metal ended treble Aeola, but I only use them if playing stood up. They also make good and secure carrying handles!

 

Actually I am being asked to fit neck strap mounts far more frequently these days, either due to the influence of Pauline DeSnoo, or the aging of he concertina playing population, or perhaps just common sense for bigger instruments. Certainly they were not uncommon on some of the bigger 'band' instruments.

 

Dave

[Stephen Chambers]

Actually I am being asked to fit neck strap mounts far more frequently these days, either due to the influence of Pauline DeSnoo, or the aging of he concertina playing population, or perhaps just common sense for bigger instruments.

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I've never seen, nor heard Pauline play, but Douglas Rogers has been using them for years to play the classical concertina music of Giulio Regondi. Regondi advocated the use of a neck strap to free the little finger and permit playing with all four fingers.

[geoffwright]

How long do you have to play any concertina (including a new one) before the straps mould themselves to your hands and hand position (and unmould themselves from the previous owners hands)?

You have to be somewhat persistant to find a comfortable position to hold/play it in and I suspect quite a few beginners don't persist long enough.

Personally, I had to persist on my first English concertina for over a year before I could get workable control over it and my fingers got into line.

[JimLucas]

Who of You has heard and seen Sandra Kerr? I think her wonderfull playing depends on using wrist straps.

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While she may consider the wrist straps helpful, I rather doubt that they are primarily responsible for either her style or her ability.