Re-finishing Action Box Ends

[d.elliott]

The forum seems to have slowed down a little to I thought I would raise one of my intended projects.

 

Like many amateur repairer I can do most things, but those jobs that need special facilities or more space is either beyond me, or take more effort than the job is worth to do. In my case, my house is really too small to set up an adequately spacious, dust free environment for re- polishing ends. Its not that I cannot re-polish, its a job that does not arise often and so I avoid the task. The last time I did a complete re- polish the disruption to the family was more than they (even me) bargained for.

 

I have a 20 key anglo where the polish is blistered and rubbing off, its fuly restored, and I use it to loan to people when their pride and joy comes in for repair. I have often thought about re-doing the ends but...............

 

Recently I picked up another 20 key anglo, well beyond economic repair, for scrapping and parts. One end has survived, again polish blistered and flaking.

 

I have been toying with the idea of using brushable acrylic varnish, flatted between coats. I have used this with success on other furniture and wood turning projects, and I am considering using the end off the scrapper as a test piece. Has anyone else tried this type of finish or used acrylics in this context??

 

What do others use for finishing or re-finishing ends?

 

a, as clear polish

 

b, on ebonised ends

 

c, on raised ends

 

Dave

[Paul Read]

Good question Dave. So far I've stuck to french polishing but it sure is time consuming. Is sprayed laquer a reasonable option? I think Frank Edgley uses hand rubbed polyurethane as one option.

[Bob Tedrow]

Here is my "recipe"

 

1.Bare wood is taken to 220 grit

 

2. Two coats of lacquer sanding sealer

 

3. take that down with 350 grit

 

4. four coats of sanding sealer

 

5 take that down with 350 grit

 

6. color coat if need be

 

7. clear coats of lacquer maybe four or five gloss or satin whatever suits you.

 

I typically use a final satin finish coat because it is forgiving.

 

Good gloss is tough.

 

gloss black finish is an absolute nightmare you can safely double the coats to get an even finish.

 

and for those who must do so.

 

let the gloss coat mature for a week before polishing.

 

take that finish down through a series of wet/dry grits to about 1500 grit

 

buff the final finish.

 

 

Then you carefully sand or buff all the way through the finish on the edges and ruin the whole damn thing, throw it across the room, lock the doors and head for the pub.

 

The last part is just an option.

[JimLucas]

Then you carefully sand or buff all the way through the finish on the edges and ruin the whole damn thing, throw it across the room, lock the doors and head for the pub.

 

The last part is just an option.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Does it cost extra?

[red]

I think you should buy some french polish, pigments, a soft brush as well as wadding and rags for rubbers, get a book or instruction on traditional polishing and just get on with it. Polishing is something you learn by doing it. Its not that difficult, I mean what's so difficult about concertina ends compared with a piano! And if you make a complete mess, just clean it off with meths and start again, harmless fun! If it all gets to much, just do what the old piano polishers used to do - have a refreshing swig from the meths can. Try this site www.myland.co.uk for all your polishing needs.

[Richard Morse]

With the amount of finishing we do we'd need a special town permit and regular inspections to make sure all the filters, traps, ventilations, wiring, etc. were up to snuff.... So we farm it out entirely to a finish specialist in the next town.

 

We deliver the ends to them sanded to 220, and they prep, seal, stain, and spray finish them with a several-coat process that's a modified nitro-cellulose type, then buff, clean.... Takes a week, but they come out great and lets us get on doing what we do best.

[d.elliott]

Red,

I have done plenty of french polishing over the years, but as Rich says its messy and time consuming, I prefer it to spray finishing. As I say in my posting I am looking for an alternative that is more 'house friendly'. I also have ebonised with spirit black and black tinted shellac, but I am not sure about Bob's lacquer. I actually have the materials you suggest, including the thumb-full of boiled linseed to lubricate the rubber. Oh, piano's have nice big flat areas, no fretting, it's the fretting that cuts the rubber to bits, and causes the shellac to catch and tear.

 

I have every sympathy with Jim's comment about rubbing/ buffing through the edges, hence the advice to 'stripe coat' them a few times first.

 

All,

Acrylic has the benefits of: water solubility, brush application, ease of spill management, freedom of odour, and availability at a low cost.

 

Clearly the old polish will require removal, hopefully there will be no reaction with the inevitable residue in the wood grain, always a problem with re-finishing.

 

Any more experience or ideas? Or shall I just have a go??

 

Dave

[Wade Collins]

When I undertook the restoration of one of my concertinas, to overcome the problem of how to French polish over the button holes and the fretwork. I filled the holes flush to the surface with a 5mm thick closed cell white material I use in prosthetics called (pelite). For the holes I used a leather workers' hole punch to make plugs to fit snugley in the holes. For the fretwork I traced the pattern onto the (pelite) and cut these out with a small (Olfa knife). These I installed into the fretwork holes flush to the surface to be finshed. This stopped the shelac from running into the holes and also tearing the rubbers. When I was finished the polishing I then carefully pushed the fillers in, and trimmed the shelac from around the edges with small files. This worked very successfully for me.

 

 

Wade Collins

[Bob Tedrow]

prosthetics called (pelite).  For the holes I used a leather workers' hole punch to make plugs to fit snugley in the holes.  For the fretwork I traced the pattern onto the (pelite) and cut these out with a small (Olfa knife). These I installed into the

Wade Collins

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I was an OT in a former life, Wade.

Edited February 6, 2005 by Bob Tedrow

[d.elliott]

On a concertina with key holes felt bushed, I actually left the felt in place to protect the holes, but when I removed the old bushings on completion of the polishing exercise, it occaisionally 'snipped' the shellac around the holes. This was not noticeable once the holes affected were re-bushed. Another time I left the holes un-plugged, and re-reamed them after polishing, this resulted in somewhat less damage. I had always thought that plugging the fretting was impractical.

 

Where can one get this 'Pelite', is it available in the UK? does it have a UK trade name? I am sory Wade, but I don't know your location.

 

Dave

[Theo]

You could try this brushing French polish from Mylands

 

Theo

[Wade Collins]

   

On a concertina with key holes felt bushed, I actually left the felt in place to protect the holes, but when I removed the old bushings on completion of the polishing exercise, it occaisionally 'snipped' the shellac around the holes. This was not noticeable once the holes affected were re-bushed. Another time I left the holes un-plugged, and re-reamed them after polishing, this resulted in somewhat less damage. I had always thought that plugging the fretting was impractical.

 

Where can one get this 'Pelite', is it available in the UK? does it have a UK trade name? I am sory Wade, but I don't know your location.

 

Dave

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Wade Collins]

Dave

 

"Pelite" is a closed cell medium density neoprene-like material, white or pink in color, used by prosthetic and orthotic facilities around the world. It should be available in the UK from most prosthetic facilities' - in their scrap boxes. Yes, the filling of the fret holes was time consuming, but when the holes were filled flush, the french polishing coats where able to be applied easily and quickly.

 

 

Wade

 

Victoria, B.C., Canada

[Dave Gray]

Dave,

 

Many small scale luthiers have turned to using Waterborne finishes for exactly the reasons Richard Morse mention. I think they would be very applicable to Concertina ends. They can be sprayed, brushed or put on with a cloth.

 

One method using a cotton cloth wad (almost like French polishing but without the circular motion)

Usual sand/fill grain (epoxy based)

Apply very light coats with damp cloth (with grain).

Wait to dry (few hours)

Apply more finish with grain

Wait to dry minimum 48 hours

Sand 1200 - 4000

Polish

 

One source of this type of product is from Stewart MacDonald's see:

 

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Finishing_supp...r_Lacquers.html

 

and

 

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Finishing_supp...70.html#details

 

Stew Macs instructions are different from the cloth method above.

You pays yer money and takes yer chances.

 

Dave G.

Edited February 6, 2005 by Dave Gray

[red]

Dave, I'm sorry if you thought I was trying to teach my granny to suck eggs. I am a cabinet maker who uses various finishes depending on the job in hand, in fact I got through 20 litres of water based lacqer last week. For a restoration job like you proposed I would always use french polish for an authentic look and avoiding problems with mixing uncompatible materials. Try using a very dry rubber, with cotton buds on hand for the drips. I'm sorry your family don't like the smell - it sounds like a very good reason to treat yourself to a shed!

 

As a matter of personal taste I don't like bright burnished finishes and if I was doing a new concertina I might try an oil finish, its absolutely idiot proof and gives a beautiful deep sheen. Whether it is durable enough to endure all that handling I can't be sure, but I'll find out when I try it later this year. But it is a finish that can be easily refreshed. red

[d.elliott]

Thanks everyone, good advice:

 

I shall have a trial run using acrylic or water based lacquer on one end of the scrap instrument and probably an oil base on the other. This instrument I intend to re-finish does not have felt key hole bushes, so there should be no glue bond issues in the key holes from the use of oil, which would be my reservation. I agree with Red that a satin finish is preferable and probably more durable in the long term.

 

I shall also look into the practicalities of getting hold of some pelite to stop off the fretting appertures, and finally:

 

I shall seriously look at the luthier's water based laquers to see whats available.

 

I would like to give one more bit of 'food for thought', I have found more control using 0000 guage wire wool impregnated with wax for final cutting back and burnishing than with abraisve paper or cloth

 

regards

 

Dave,

 

ps the next topic ought to be about making thumb straps! who wants to start that one off??

 

D

[Dave Gray]

Dave,

I use a synthetic wire wool substitute made by 3M for rub-down between coats. It works especially well with waterborne finishes as it does not leave any wire dust/fragments to rust and hence leave unsitely brown marks in the finish. They come in flat pads so the tendancy to round edges is less.

 

Dave G.

 

p.s. another source of a luthiers waterborne finish, this time from LMI

 

http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts....r+Based+Lacquer

 

Edited to add:

I noticed the last product has been discontinued, try this.

 

http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts....er+based+Finish

Edited February 8, 2005 by Dave Gray

[d.elliott]

Dave,

 

Is your synthetic wire wool a form of scotchbrite, an abrasive pad of some form?

 

Have you tried using it with wax for final flatting/ buffing?

 

Dave