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johnconstable

Dating A Lachenal From The Serial Number

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5d9cd45a71a9a4c6217fec57_big.jpg Just bought this 31 button Lachenal anglo. serial number 14949. Judging from earlier entries this would mean early 1890ies. Or am I completely wrong?

Best regards to all, thankful for every bit of history here.

Edited by Liraman

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Yours is surly much older than that.  My 79,001 is supposedly 1886 I believe without looking.

 

Seth

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1 hour ago, Seth said:

Yours is surly much older than that.  My 79,001 is supposedly 1886 I believe without looking.

 

Seth

Thanks Seth! And your instrument is indeed an anglo and not an English (With, I suppose, another numbering system)?

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59 minutes ago, Liraman said:

Thanks Seth! And your instrument is indeed an anglo and not an English (With, I suppose, another numbering system)?

Yes, my Lachenal is an Anglo like yours but with 20 buttons instead of 30.  I actually have several Lachenals and a few others, duets and Anglos,

no English systems.

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16 hours ago, Liraman said:

serial number 14949.

Does it have "Louis Lachenal" label or "Lachenal & Co" label ? If the latter, it might be 114949 (leading 1 missing) or 14949X. I once saw the photo of 15130 (slightly later than yours) which had "Louis Lachenal" label and numbered keys. That was with 20 buttons though.  🐐

Edited by Takayuki YAGI
typo
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OK, friends, thanks for good advice, here are my comments:

Here's some photos. Responding to Takayuki: Yes it's the latter, and, see photos , it's 14949(x)

And, responding to Seth:  Judging from earlier entries from Dowright, my instrument would be  dated to 1897, see below.

 

Anglo No. 197411 made in  1926.

No 174914 - circa 1903

Anglo No. 183566 dates to circa 1910.

Anglo No. 174914 -  circa 1903

Anglo No. 151069 -  circa 1897

Anglo No 149300 1897

Anglo No.147189 is from circa 1896

Anglo No. 144430 in 1896

Anglo No 128130-- 1892

Anglo No. 109790-- 1890.

Anglo No. 104739 was sold on 26 April 1888

Anglo No. 100294 was made in  circa  1887.

Anglo No 85842 1885

Anglo No. 84276 made circa 1885.

 

If I am wrong, where did I go ditto?

Bets of regards

The Liraman

 

IMG_9871.jpg

IMG_9872.jpg

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23 hours ago, Liraman said:

5d9cd45a71a9a4c6217fec57_big.jpg Just bought this 31 button Lachenal anglo. serial number 14949. Judging from earlier entries this would mean early 1890ies. Or am I completely wrong?

Best regards to all, thankful for every bit of history here.

 

I see the issue, you gave the wrong serial number in your original post.

In your original post above the serial number given was14,949 which is a very early serial number and what my replies have been based on.  I see you have updated this since my original post with the correct serial number.  Being off by one digit makes a huge difference.  

 

Seth

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OK I now have a Lachenal anglo from approx late 1897.

BUT, the plot thickened as I, on unscrewing the bass side discovered a crumpled label I had not seen at first: 158745.

This would give a treble side from 1897 and a bass side from 1898 or even somewhat later.

As soon as I have managed to unscrew the bass side with screws in one piece, as of now they are stuck as in welded, I may determine if the label number corresponds to any number on the reed plate. I'll keep you posted.

  

number basside.jpg

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You will always get a better stab at the serial number by looking at the inner face of the bellows frame. Stampings on the reed pans often have digits machined out or obliterated by chamber walls., Some instruments also have their stampings under the pad board, but these can be less easy to read. 

 

Dave

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Thanks Dave ,

I fully agree with you, and more so when I finally managed to unscrew the bass side reed pan see the photos, which is a good illustration to what you write. Here the number is divided between two chambers, giving the  number of 149497, The 7 being missed in the corresponding stamping on the treble side.

So, the year 1897 still stands, I suppose.

/JanW

  

IMG_9897.jpg

IMG_9900.jpg

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You are looking at the reedpan, lift out the reedpan, and you will see a 'clean' stamping below the chamois gasket on the bellows frame. its the same corner as the reed pan has been stamped on. 

 

I notice  from your photo that some one has added a red biro cross on the gasket and the reed pan to ensure everything is lined up correctly. Personally I don't like to see this practise of marking on the chamois gaskets, it is unnecessary.

 

If you did not know, there is a system in concertina stampings, left hand major assemblies are all stamped 'L'  at the corner which corresponds to the fretting positions of the maker's serial number window on the Left Hand Side. Conversely the right hand assemblies are stamped 'R'  to line up with the corner of the maker's 'seal' on the Right Hand Side. This way the assemblies for the two ends can be easily identified. The Bellows Frame is also Stamped 'L'  at one end and 'R' at the other. You can  line the stampings of the reed pans and bellows frames and the reed pans will go back where they came from. Similarly the underside of the action box assemblies  are stamped in one corner,  'L '& 'R' and if they are lined up  withe the reed pan stampings then the assembly will be properly oriented.  Lachenal also included the serial number in their stamping as did some other manufacturers, Some like Jeffries and Wheatstone  did not, choosing to stamp the jig reference number instead.  

 

Even knowing this I sometimes catch myself putting things in the wrong place  especially when teaching and I am talking or answering questions.

 

Hope this is of interest.

 

Dave

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Thanks Dave, much appreciated!

It does not explain the different number on the paper label found on the bass side, 158745, though.

/JanW

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Check the stamping in the action box and/ or under the pad board. You may have got a composite, a bit of one instrument and a bit of another. It is not that uncommon. or perhaps reed pans were swapped at some time steel reeded for brass, who knows?

 

Dave

 

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Talking about dates I’ve got a question:

is there a rough guess when Lachenal started using metal labels instead of the paper ones? Particularly for New Models...

sorry if it has already been answered elsewhere.

thanks

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Hi Pierre,

Dowright who knows all about manufacturing dates of our Lachenal concertinas is building a database. He will be interested in all the features of your concertina: system, used materials, number of buttons, number of bellow folds, etc. 

Quid pro quo.

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