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Dating A Lachenal From The Serial Number


johnconstable
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  • 3 months later...

Repeating my query here from the Dating Lachenal Concertinas - Serial Numbers/Descriptions thread. My "AG Duet" Lachenal (basically a Jeffries layout Anglo with extra buttons, a few of which are the same on push and pull) see

is numbered 2277, in what seems to have been at the time a single series for any sort of Duet. Previous info indicates a date c.1904. Can we pin it down any more precisely?

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3 hours ago, Richard Mellish said:

Repeating my query here from the Dating Lachenal Concertinas - Serial Numbers/Descriptions thread. My "AG Duet" Lachenal (basically a Jeffries layout Anglo with extra buttons, a few of which are the same on push and pull) see

is numbered 2277, in what seems to have been at the time a single series for any sort of Duet. Previous info indicates a date c.1904. Can we pin it down any more precisely?

 

In fact the latest tweak of the database estimates duet serial numbers from 2267 to 2358 to be from 1903, which (purely on averages) might suggest 2277 was made in February 1903. However, we know that instruments were not finished in serial-number order (and sometimes years later!), so it's impossible to be definitive.

 

The only way we could be positive about the completion date would be if Lachenal's factory ledgers came to light, but we don't even know (for a fact) if they kept any, let alone what might have become of them in the meantime...

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  • 3 weeks later...

Back in June 2019 a question referring to a Lachenal Edeophone Sn: 39825, was asked. The description was for a 56 extended Treble instrument. Downright answered confirming the 56 k description, and giving a date.

 

I now have an Edeophone serial  39825 on the bench. but it is no way a 56 k treble, no matter how I stretch things, are there records/ instances of duplicate serial serial numbers. The other oddity is that action is riveted, 100% and seems so from new.

 

Dave

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello, I've just acquired my first concertina, thanks to Greg Jowaisas.

 

It is a Lachenal anglo concertina, apparently their "Special Model". Inset metal ends, 44 bone buttons (including air), parallel reed pans, 7-fold bellows. Serial number is 121324, stamped on the right-hand reed pan. The label on the right side reads "Lachenal & Co. Patent Concertina Manufacturers, London".

 

My estimate of manufacturing date from looking through the past posts for nearby serial numbers is 1892. Does that still seem accurate? Thanks!

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2 hours ago, Jesse Smith said:

Hello, I've just acquired my first concertina, thanks to Greg Jowaisas.

 

It is a Lachenal anglo concertina, apparently their "Special Model". Inset metal ends, 44 bone buttons (including air), parallel reed pans, 7-fold bellows. Serial number is 121324, stamped on the right-hand reed pan. The label on the right side reads "Lachenal & Co. Patent Concertina Manufacturers, London".

 

My estimate of manufacturing date from looking through the past posts for nearby serial numbers is 1892. Does that still seem accurate? Thanks!

 

based upon current data 1891/1892 would be about right  

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi,

on a recent trip to Australia I was given my father´s Lachenal concertina. Dad was given this concertina by a neighbour when he was 10 years old, he is now 93 years old so it has been in our family for over 80 years and it has finally been passed on to me to look after.

 

This Lachenal is made of rosewood, has 20 + air ivory buttons and is serial number 80720, I´d like to know what the model is called and what year this might have been made.

 

Thank you in advance for any help you can give me,

 

regards, John in Norway

 

20220823_231223.jpg

Edited by Aussie John
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I have an identical instrument Serial No 42759 Lachenal & Co, manufacturers, London.  I believe it was a Student model.  I am 87, and this concertina was in my grand father’s possession when I was born.  I have traced a transaction to a Miss YEATMAN (his surname) from the Wheatstone ledgers in 1853, a sale in three instalments, and would love to think that she was an ancestor of mine  …the wooden case has original velvet lining and is lockable, and the instrument plays well.  I would like to claim this provenance but no one has yet allied the Serial No to the Wheatstone entry.   I Would like to know the value of this family treasure. I live in regional South Australia where such folk items are rare.

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23 hours ago, Aussie John said:

This Lachenal is made of rosewood, has 20 + air ivory buttons and is serial number 80720, I´d like to know what the model is called and what year this might have been made.

 

Lachenal Anglo #80720 would have been made in 1883, though there could be a lead digit 1 that's not immediately visible unless you look carefully for it, in which case the date for #180720 would be 1909.

 

But the timber isn't rosewood, that's mahogany, and the buttons are bone, not ivory. It was Lachenal's most basic model - described in their catalogues as "Mahogany - 20 Keys" and either "Brass Reeds" (cheaper) or "Steel Reeds" (better).

 

It appears to be in exceptionally nice condition, except that the original brass thumbscrews (for adjusting the straps) have been replaced with woodscrews.

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47 minutes ago, Stephen Chambers said:

 

Lachenal Anglo #80720 would have been made in 1883, though there could be a lead digit 1 that's not immediately visible unless you look carefully for it, in which case the date for #180720 would be 1909.

 

But the timber isn't rosewood, that's mahogany, and the buttons are bone, not ivory. It was Lachenal's most basic model - described in their catalogues as "Mahogany - 20 Keys" and either "Brass Reeds" (cheaper) or "Steel Reeds" (better).

 

It appears to be in exceptionally nice condition, except that the original brass thumbscrews (for adjusting the straps) have been replaced with woodscrews.

Thanks for your help Steve, I checked and there is indeed a '1' in front of the '8' almost covered up.

So it is s/n 180720 and was made around 1909.

 

Thank you very much for your help.

 

Cheers, John

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16 hours ago, JudeMuso said:

I have an identical instrument Serial No 42759 Lachenal & Co, manufacturers, London.  I believe it was a Student model.

 

Many of my comments on Aussie John's instrument (above) will also apply to yours then JudeMuso.

 

Lachenal Anglo #42759 would have been made in 1877, or (if there's a lead digit 1 that's been missed) #142759 would have been made in 1895.

 

 

Quote

 I have traced a transaction to a Miss YEATMAN (his surname) from the Wheatstone ledgers in 1853, a sale in three instalments, and would love to think that she was an ancestor of mine  …the wooden case has original velvet lining and is lockable, and the instrument plays well.  I would like to claim this provenance but no one has yet allied the Serial No to the Wheatstone entry.  

 

I don't know what 1853 entry you might have found in the Wheatstone ledgers, but it could only have had a 4-digit serial number - not 5 digits, and would have been for a 48-key English concertina.

 

Quote

I Would like to know the value of this family treasure. I live in regional South Australia where such folk items are rare.

 

Lots of family heirlooms are (quite rightly) priceless to the family they belong to, but of relatively little value to anybody else - and that is the case here. 20-key Anglos were the cheapest models when they were made in the 19th century, but modern-day musicians find them much too basic, and limiting. I can only get €500 (735 Australian dollars) for a perfect, tuned and restored, one like that, and often buy them cheaply (€50), and in poor condition, to use for spare parts.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Stephen Chambers
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On 9/2/2022 at 12:45 PM, Jingles said:

Hi I have a lachenal and co mahogany 21 bone button 5 bellow concertina serial number 93011 in original box can you tell me how old it is and if it is valuable.

 

Lachenal Anglo #93011 would have been made in 1886, though there could be a lead digit 1 that's not immediately visible unless you look carefully for it, in which case the date for #193011 would be 1919.

 

It was Lachenal's most basic model - described in their catalogues as "Mahogany - 20 Keys" and with either "Brass Reeds" (cheaper) or "Steel Reeds" (better).

 

20-key Anglos were the cheapest models when they were made in the 19th century, but modern-day musicians find them much too basic, and limiting. I can only get €500 for a perfect, steel-reeded, tuned and restored, one like that, and often buy them cheaply (€50), and in poor condition, to use for spare parts.

 

 

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Can you please give a date for Lachenal 29731 - English 48 key, Rosewood moulded ends, nickel buttons, steel reeds?

 

Is this a Paragon model, or a model 5 - how does one tell them apart?

 

Lachenal 29781_fettled1.jpg

Edited by Paul_Hardy
Correct serial from 29781 to 29731
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Hi Paul,

 

I think (based upon the data from others, 1889, or thereabouts. As to the differences between the Paragon and the No. 5, besides a 33% increase in price, the Lachenal price lists make the comment about the reed metallurgy and the quality of sound. The No. 5 is quoted as having 'no gilding but ornamented paper' on the bellows, I know that the inimitable, excelsior, nonpareil had gilding on the bellows frame wraps, I am not sure if the paragon had this feature too. both concertina models are quoted as having German-silver keys (studs).

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On 9/6/2022 at 4:16 PM, Paul_Hardy said:

Can you please give a date for Lachenal 29731 - English 48 key, Rosewood moulded ends, nickel buttons, steel reeds?

 

Lachenal English concertina #29731 would appear to date from the latter part of 1890. 

 

Quote

Is this a Paragon model, or a model 5 - how does one tell them apart?

 

According to the c.1890 Price List a No. 5 had brass reeds, a No. 8 "The Paragon" had steel reeds - so yours is a Paragon.

 

No. 9 "The Inimitable" was otherwise the same as No. 8, but had silver-tip keys. 

Edited by Stephen Chambers
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Welcome aboard David!

 

There's a bit more to it than that I'm afraid, in that Lachenal's had more than one number sequence, for different types of concertinas, plus there's a potential ambiguity about Anglo serial numbers because of the huge number of them (more than 200,000!) that they made.

 

Also, there's potentially a bit of a trade-off in information in that you can help us with the dating project by describing (or, better still, photographing) the instrument you have.

 

So, if it's an English-system concertina (4 rows of buttons, usually totalling 48 in number), #54982 would have been made towards the end of 1912, whilst if it's an Anglo-system (2, or 3, rows of buttons, usually totalling 20, or 30, in number), #54982 would have been made in 1879, though there could be a lead digit 1 that's not immediately visible unless you look carefully for it, in which case the date for #154982 would be 1897.

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