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Lachenal New Model Tenor On Ebay


nicx66
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I am not the seller, just a curious party. Are the 35 button models always tenor range instruments? The eBay listing has little useful information, which is not uncommon. The six fold bellows look original. http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-ANTIQUE-LACHENAL-35-KEY-CONCERTINA/201785005053?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D38530%26meid%3D9e5216abc9cf452a8bca73016ffb2c93%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D201785005053

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I am not the seller, just a curious party. Are the 35 button models always tenor range instruments? The eBay listing has little useful information, which is not uncommon.

 

No.

I have a 35-button "G-bass" Lachenal English. I.e., its lowest note is 2 octaves below the low G of a treble English (or violin). With 35 buttons, its highest note is middle C.

I think that in general, Englishes with fewer than 48 buttons would have been intended for use in bands, including marching bands..

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I'm pretty shure that it is a 35 key tenor, quite likely an original F-tenor!

I had two of this model, which - after restoration - were lovely instruments:

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=14729&hl=%2Blachenal+%2Btenor

They were made mainly for the salvation army and when fingered normally would sound in F rather than C.

That was handy to play along with brass instruments.

By swapping a few reeds and tuning a few more it is possible to change from F-tenor to tenor.

So it is basically up to personal taste, how it is done up..

I love the F-range and was tempted, but I have a couple of F-tenor Aeolas by now.

Edited by conzertino
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I'm pretty shure that it is a 35 key tenor, quite likely an original F-tenor!

I had two of this model, which - after restoration - were lovely instruments:

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=14729&hl=%2Blachenal+%2Btenor

They were made mainly for the salvation army and when fingered normally would sound in F rather than C.

That was handy to play along with brass instruments.

By swapping a few reeds and tuning a few more it is possible to change from F-tenor to tenor.

So it is basically up to personal taste, how it is done up..

I love the F-range and was tempted, but I have a couple of F-tenor Aeolas by now.

It could be a baritone! I estored a 35 key baritone some years ago. I didnt see any indication in the ad it is a tenor or baritone.

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I'm pretty shure that it is a 35 key tenor, quite likely an original F-tenor!

I had two of this model, which - after restoration - were lovely instruments:

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=14729&hl=%2Blachenal+%2Btenor

They were made mainly for the salvation army and when fingered normally would sound in F rather than C.

That was handy to play along with brass instruments.

By swapping a few reeds and tuning a few more it is possible to change from F-tenor to tenor.

So it is basically up to personal taste, how it is done up..

I love the F-range and was tempted, but I have a couple of F-tenor Aeolas by now.

 

As a 30 button C/G anglo player, these fascinate me, as F is the only key that can be played across 3 full octaves (diatonic scales). I have a feeling that they would sound lovely together. Then again, the New Models really don't need accompaniment.

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Yes; it looks just like my 35 key Lachenal New Model F Tenor, only mine's in a much nicer condition having been restored by David Robertson. I had been tempted to convert to a standard tenor but in the end liked it too much as it is, as you can just pick it up and play without having to give any thought to the fingering. My wife, who plays mandolin, can pick up a tenor guitar tuned CGDA and accompany this concertina.

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Yes; it looks just like my 35 key Lachenal New Model F Tenor, only mine's in a much nicer condition having been restored by David Robertson. I had been tempted to convert to a standard tenor but in the end liked it too much as it is, as you can just pick it up and play without having to give any thought to the fingering. My wife, who plays mandolin, can pick up a tenor guitar tuned CGDA and accompany this concertina.

Hm...what do you mean by "convert it to a standard tenor" ? If it has the low F ( a fifth below middle C) on the left side at the same level in relation to the thumb strap as the normal C on a treble. ( So it is on the instrument here: http://www.ebay.com/...sd=201785005053 ) then that IS the "standard" Tenor arrangement since when fingered in the same way as a common treble it transposes a fifth down to the key of F. Same principle as a "standard" baritone fingered just like a common treble transposes an octave down. Next according to the same principle you have the F-bass transposing an octave+ a fifth down

 

There surely ARE "tenors" also in C but if meant for band work, as these F-instruments usually were, the point was playing the score/part for Eb instruments while the common original C-instruments did the score/part for Bb instruments. In concertina band environment the F-instruments thus often ( mostly?) are referred to as Eb instruments. Somewhat confusing if this background is not considered.

 

You say ..." My wife, who plays mandolin, can pick up a tenor guitar tuned CGDA and accompany this concertina" At a quick thought on this it makes me a bit confused however.... IF your tenor IS in F.

It would be more handy if being in C it seems ( without trying in practise ) but you may transpose of course with the guitar too....)

 

By the way - it is fairly easy to transpose with a concertina also between keys F and C... and after swapping all B:s and Bb:s you can make it one step easier still.

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I am not the seller, just a curious party. Are the 35 button models always tenor range instruments? The eBay listing has little useful information, which is not uncommon.

 

No.

I have a 35-button "G-bass" Lachenal English. I.e., its lowest note is 2 octaves below the low G of a treble English (or violin). With 35 buttons, its highest note is middle C.

I think that in general, Englishes with fewer than 48 buttons would have been intended for use in bands, including marching bands..

 

Jim, why do you call that a "G-bass" ? Is it transposing to the key of G really? Or is it rather a C instrument - sounding two octaves lower than the common © treble? In that case is it not a proper C-bass what often is called in concertina band practise a " Bb-bass". ?? (when F instruments become "Eb" ones ..)

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There surely ARE "tenors" also in C but if meant for band work, as these F-instruments usually were, the point was playing the score/part for Eb instruments while the common original C-instruments did the score/part for Bb instruments. In concertina band environment the F-instruments thus often ( mostly?) are referred to as Eb instruments. Somewhat confusing if this background is not considered.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have an old (1901) anglo concertina that some refer to as an "Eb". Its actually tuned a semitone sharp of normal (for anglos) C/G, at C#/G#. I guess when playing with other instruments, calling it "Eb" is more informative to people unfamiliar with the way concertinas are tuned.

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I have an old (1901) anglo concertina that some refer to as an "Eb". Its actually tuned a semitone sharp of normal (for anglos) C/G, at C#/G#. I guess when playing with other instruments, calling it "Eb" is more informative to people unfamiliar with the way concertinas are tuned.

 

Sounds very odd to me...C#/G# being so very unusual and hard to see the use for too. Is it really a full semitone sharp? Can it have been about a quartertone sharp originally since if so having been an ordinary c/G but in Old Philharmonic pitch a=452,5 ?....and maybe having been retuned later to C#/G# with a=440 just to make it in "concert pitch" ...roughly...

Where the Eb comes in seems even more confusing unless actually been Ab/Eb ( Eb instead of C#) and some of it all been mixed up.....??

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My impression is that it also has to do with flutes, penny whistles, and Irish pipes in D being the accepted, "concert" pitch, and if you play along with them (as a C/G concertina can and does), you are concert pitch (you are in "D") too. Deviations from that are noted by some folks with the appropriate flute/whistle/pipes moniker. So a whole tone lower (lovely on the pipes, a "C" set) would be C flute/whistle/pipes and (if you don't change fingering) you'd use a Bb/F concertina, a "C" instrument in this context. Fiddles, OTOH rarely retune in my experience - they adjust their fingering or sit it out.

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If I am not also confused then I understand that, in ITM, a C/G is often referred to as a D concertina because that is the most frequently (often only?) key that is played. Now take a C#/G# and the same fingering would yield an Eb (enharmonically = D#) concertina.

New to me...is that so? Very interesting. Generally speaking then that in ITM the C/G instruments are most commonly used for playing in D? Just trying to imagine the situation it seems like playing in D major is not particularly handy while D minor might get pretty attractive. Fingering wise...since you get the Tonic D minor and Dominant A Minor chords right away ( while the subdominant G stays major ) Melody fingering likely comfortable too conditionally playing mostly in D minor ...not D major...of course.

What about that? Some sense in it or what else is the reason preferring a C/G instrument for tunes in D? or the reverse? Having no familiarity with ITM I can't know....most tunes in minor really?

 

The consequent instrument history related question is....Have Dd/Ab ( not C#/G# ) anglos been rather common in Ireland in fact? For playing in Eb as said?

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If I am not also confused then I understand that, in ITM, a C/G is often referred to as a D concertina because that is the most frequently (often only?) key that is played. Now take a C#/G# and the same fingering would yield an Eb (enharmonically = D#) concertina.

New to me...is that so? Very interesting. Generally speaking then that in ITM the C/G instruments are most commonly used for playing in D? Just trying to imagine the situation it seems like playing in D major is not particularly handy while D minor might get pretty attractive. Fingering wise...since you get the Tonic D minor and Dominant A Minor chords right away ( while the subdominant G stays major ) Melody fingering likely comfortable too conditionally playing mostly in D minor ...not D major...of course.

What about that? Some sense in it or what else is the reason preferring a C/G instrument for tunes in D? or the reverse? Having no familiarity with ITM I can't know....most tunes in minor really?

 

The consequent instrument history related question is....Have Dd/Ab ( not C#/G# ) anglos been rather common in Ireland in fact? For playing in Eb as said?

 

 

There are many reasons why the C/G is preferred in ITM, over G/D and D/A instruments. I am new to the concertina, having only played now for 2 years, however I am starting to understand some of those reasons. A C/G concertina allows you to mimic certain piping styles, specifically, being able to drone the D and A (power?) chords. By this I mean the two note, lower register chords in A and D. Of course, you have to change fingerings from push to pull. This is just one (rather poorly explained) example.

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There are many reasons why the C/G is preferred in ITM, over G/D and D/A instruments. I am new to the concertina, having only played now for 2 years, however I am starting to understand some of those reasons. A C/G concertina allows you to mimic certain piping styles, specifically, being able to drone the D and A (power?) chords. By this I mean the two note, lower register chords in A and D. Of course, you have to change fingerings from push to pull.

The adoption of the C/G Anglo as the standard concertina for Irish traditional music was a historical accident; nothing more. There's nothing about that configuration that makes it particularly easy to mimic piping styles--and anyway, that kind of mimicry is a relatively recent fashion in Irish concertina playing. We owe the cross-row conventions of the "modern" style, and its familiar vocabulary of ornaments, to the ingenuity of the players (Paddy Murphy among others) who figured out how to integrate a concertina into the kind of ensemble playing that became popular as part of the public dance hall scene from the 1930s onward. C/G boxes were used because C/G boxes were available. If they sound more "natural" to us now than, say, G/D instruments, that's just because we're so used to hearing them.

 

Bob Michel

Near Philly

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