Jump to content

Classical Music On A Concertina


Recommended Posts

Over the years I've listened to most available recordings of classical music on concertinas, both anglo & english, and although admiring of the technical and musical mastery shown, have never found them satisfying.

Adrian has just put up this.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5i6QI7u870&feature=youtu.be

I find it completely satisfying and I'm trying an analyse why, without trying to over-analyse it ( if you follow me )

It's only been 24 hours and I'm still pondering. The mastery of the instrument is there but it's more than that.

Is it because this anglo has this very organ-like sound and the piece, as played, could have been composed for organ ?

It has an "authentic" sound that does not leave me thinking " What a lovely piece of music well played on a concertina".

Be interested to know what you all think.

Robin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Over the years I've listened to most available recordings of classical music on concertinas, both anglo & english, and although admiring of the technical and musical mastery shown, have never found them satisfying.

Adrian has just put up this.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5i6QI7u870&feature=youtu.be

I find it completely satisfying and I'm trying an analyse why, without trying to over-analyse it ( if you follow me )

It's only been 24 hours and I'm still pondering. The mastery of the instrument is there but it's more than that.

Is it because this anglo has this very organ-like sound and the piece, as played, could have been composed for organ ?

It has an "authentic" sound that does not leave me thinking " What a lovely piece of music well played on a concertina".

Be interested to know what you all think.

Robin

 

This is just a superb recording.

 

Yes, the organ-like sound is part of it. I have been playing a Morse hybrid baritone, and I get some of that rich sound, but my heavens, this Dipper is just sublime, sublimely played.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I'm sitting here with a huge red face at the moment wondering how on earth I can respond to this. Just to say I'm really taken aback by the enthusiasm and kindness from you - it makes the whole enterprise very rewarding and gives me bags of enthusiasm to keep on working in this direction!
Renaissance music is a bit in my bones because making instruments for this music is what a do for a living. So I certainly have an idea about how I want it to sound - the hard part is getting there! It's not as though I can rattle up one of these every week - it takes me a long time to work out the technical aspects: the best way to fit the bellows direction to the individual lines to avoid cutting them off. Even to get all the notes under the fingers is often a challenge in itself. The part around 1min40 - 1m46, for example, was an absolute nightmare to get right. Once I can get through it, I do a lot of recording and listening to try to cure all the bits I don't like, and slowly you arrive at something you feel you can try to inflict on other people :-) Also, in the studio, we used a bit of compression to tame the worst excesses of my over enthusiastic dynamics, and the reverb came from the Anton Phillips Salle in Den Haag! Ideally in this music, the dynamics should build up in wave after wave over very long phrases - something of course that is a bit contrary to the anglo's nature and that is a constant struggle for me!
Anyway, thanks again for your kind comments,

Adrian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Is it because this anglo has this very organ-like sound and the piece, as played, could have been composed for organ ?

It has an "authentic" sound that does not leave me thinking " What a lovely piece of music well played on a concertina".

Be interested to know what you all think.

Robin

Reading the notes below the video, he says that the composer was a lutenist, and the piece was composed for the lute.

I agree it sounds dead right on the concertina. I would love to see the look on Henry vlll's face, if someone had played that to him on such a totally unknown instrument. The sound is marvellous and I agree it does sound like a piece written for organ.

Although I would like to hear it played on the lute, to be taken back 500 years in the imagination.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Over the years I've listened to most available recordings of classical music on concertinas, both anglo & english, and although admiring of the technical and musical mastery shown, have never found them satisfying.

 

I may agree..I believe *tone* as you indicate yourself is the clue. In this case the baritone anglo was "right" and the player obviously as well...BUT also as you notice it is performed in a kind of studio with echo reducing wall which also reduces high overtones. The sound becomes "dry" and much of the disharmonic tone spectrum from all free reed instruments is gone.

You may influence the "uglyness" of free reeds which mostly is not what we expect in a classical music concept by other means too.

Some "classical" concertina recordings have been done in stone halls. That is a completely different way getting around it. You get *more* echo instead but that may "sweeten" the sound by the reverb and particularly when playing original organ music this may be just perfect.

You can also use vibrato. Listen to recordings by for instance Raphael playing typical violin pieces. He was originally a cello player.

A maybe more vulgar way doing something about the free reed tone is tremolo but it certainly can be effective, for Torna a Sorriento or similar things. Swinging the instrument around is another method. For "classical" pieces I don't know...I have heard some fairly impressing exampes though..."tasteful" or not....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Sorry about that...this is in real a tremolo too but in a very delicate way and intended to simulate string instrument vibrato. Raphael is one who obviously succeeds very well. (as long as we define "vibrato" as a variation of pitch and "tremolo" as a variation of amplitude)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With a sound that almost crosses an Harmonium and a Regal but with the dynamics of Bellows control the effect is very interesting, exciting even! I think it would sound far better LIVE ( accoustic) ... the limits of internet transmission and the far from wonderfull sound system on my laptop don't help but all in all very impressive.

 

I can see a problem for the player who has , and uses, several concertinas, in the control of one that has greater dynamic ability than the others...Well done to Adrian!!

 

PS: and congrats to the Dipper's for making such a fine instrument.

 

 

Edited by Geoff Wooff
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Having just had the delight of a visit from Adrian last week, I can confirm that both this magnificent Dipper baritone and Adrian playing it -- or Adrian playing anything, really -- do sound even better live and acoustic! We in the UK should all plan to get to a Dapper's Delight concert when they're over in ... October-ish-time, I believe.

 

Inspired and intrigued by Adrian's comments on how lute repertoire lends itself to the anglo, I've just gotten Uni of Sheffield's copy of John Ward's lute collection, and will see where I get with it. Though I'm sure my first efforts, were Henry VIII to hear them, might result in his asking the axe-man to bob my hair, so don't expect any anglo-lute Youtubes from me anytime soon :-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With a sound that almost crosses an Harmonium and a Regal

 

That's what I thought Geoff.............and then had the intriguing thought that if you played just an audio of this video to people who knew nothing of concertinas ( ie the majority of the population) and asked them to guess what instrument, I wonder if the harmonium might be the answer?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The reference from BW77 in relation to Vibrato 'as a variation of pitch' and Tremolo 'as a variation of amplitude' makes me wonder, in relation to my own experience with my Anglo, if there is not sometimes, in certain circumstances, a tiny element of vibrato detectable to my ears in my application of tremolo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks again for your comments and feedback. Thanks especially to you Jody - your opinion means a lot and I was sorry we missed each other by a few days again this year! Maybe we can finally meet in 2017! Our UK tour is planned between the 13th and the 29th of October - any chance you can come earlier?

Adrian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The reference from BW77 in relation to Vibrato 'as a variation of pitch' and Tremolo 'as a variation of amplitude' makes me wonder, in relation to my own experience with my Anglo, if there is not sometimes, in certain circumstances, a tiny element of vibrato detectable to my ears in my application of tremolo.

Would be interesting trying to analyse it in lab circumstances. By forcible attack on initiating a note you can change its pitch with a concertina( one who does it very efficiently is Bertram Levy ) but if you can do it more continuously to form a "vibrato" note I don't know. The Raphael kind of tremolo IS very delicate, I can hardly hear the swaying of the note, it just sounds sweet/warm. There are several different ways to produce the effect and the physical/acousticl result likely differs. What method do you use to achieve your vibrato/tremolo ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My congratulations to Adrian, too!

 

I'm an avid listener to (though not a player of) Early Music, and this recording sounded satisfying to me.

One aspect that appealed to me was the mellowness - probably due to the concertina being a baritone. It is reminiscent of the sound that you get from a well-played (genuine, bisonoric) Bandoneon, but without the "modern" dry-octave effect. Geoff's comparison with a cross between a harmonium and a regal has something. My old, single-reeded Bandonion sounds to me rather like a harmonium, and with the baritone Anglo reeds there's more of the crispness of the regal in the timbre.

 

But I think the main reason for the appeal is the musicianship. Even if you can get all the notes fitted into the Anglo's push-pull scheme - and I'm sure I couldn't manage a piece like this - it's still not appealing music, merely technical skill.

 

I've listened to lots of recordings of sophisticated music on "fringe" instruments, like the autoharp, for instance. Sometimes I say, "Very good for an autoharp!" But sometimes I just say, "Very good music - period!" This is not just "very good for a concertina" - this is very good music!

 

@BW77: I don't know what the tremolo/vibrato distinction has to do with it - these are not really part of early music. BTW, for me as a string player, tremolo is what you do on a mandolin; vibrato is what you do on a violin.

 

Anyway, thanks to Robin for the heads-up on this clip!

 

Cheers,

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks again for your comments and feedback. Thanks especially to you Jody - your opinion means a lot and I was sorry we missed each other by a few days again this year! Maybe we can finally meet in 2017! Our UK tour is planned between the 13th and the 29th of October - any chance you can come earlier?

 

Adrian

 

Well... I would love to meet you and even play some music together, still... my 2017 England tour starts with the Baldock & Letchworth club on Nov. 8th and ends on Nov. 24 at a Ryepiece house concert near Warwick. That is the plan so far. I'm open to additional suggestions if you would like to propose something.

Edited by Jody Kruskal
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well... I would love to meet you and even play some music together, still... my 2017 England tour starts with the Baldock & Letchworth club on Nov. 8th and ends on Nov. 24 at a Ryepiece house concert near Warwick. That is the plan so far. I'm open to additional suggestions if you would like to propose something.

 

My apologies for drifting a little off-topic!

 

I thought I had seen a provisional list of venues for JK's 2017 tour, but try as I will, I cannot find it!

 

Perhaps JK could give us a possible outline of his 2017 tour, over and above what is mentioned above?

 

I missed him last year in Lymm, and would like a second bite at the cherry, so to speak...

 

Thank you.

 

Roger

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...