Would You Want To Be A Professional ?

[Greg Jowaisas]

Alan,

 

Perhaps we've come full circle. I used my personal musical experience to try and show that music as a "profession" means "job". Jobs come with baggage. If you can make music in a way that satisfies you and leave the baggage behind...why not?

 

I think that was your original point.

 

And Jim made a good comment earlier about advertising and promotion. To earn the priviledge of performing in public there is a lot of time and energy spent looking for the next gig. I dare say more time spent mailing, calling and promoting than practicing. (The world turned upside down once again.)

 

Alan is so correct in saying that playing for a living is like being any other type of entrepeneur. Producing a musical product may be more fun than selling stationary, but a number of the tasks and responsibilities are part of both "jobs".

 

I would like to make it clear that i have no attention of abandoning my musical enterprises. I have challenges to meet in adapting to changes in my market niche.

(Just as any other entrepeneur must face challenges and changes.)

 

On with the adventure!

 

Regards, Greg

[Clive Thorne]

As far as the music business is concerned, music bought, adverts placed, my website, instruments bought, repairs to instruments, new strings, reeds, insurance, union dues, accountancy fees etc. can all be offset.

As far as a gig goes, transport costs including wear & tear/ depreciation/ fuel can be claimed at a set rate, accomodation etc can be offset etc.

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I know of several people who also claim for CD's and CD players etc. That does not necessarily mean that their alowed to, however!.

 

 

Clive.

[Kurt Braun]

This professional stuff is personal and every one is different. Here is my experience. For seven years (many years ago) my only source of income was performing music. I had no day job and no unearned income. I have never worked part time as a musician so I can’t speak to that at all, but it doesn’t sound appealing. On balance, I’m very glad not to be dependent on music as a source of income. Here is my list of *personal* feelings about the two states (working musician and amateur; then and now).

 

Though I haven’t worked at music for many years, I’m a better musician than I was then. (More to the point, in my life there have been a fair number of successful pros who weren’t really that good and another fair number of really excellent musicians who never “made” it, some because they knew they wouldn’t like it, some because the market wasn’t there for their very real talent.)

 

I have better friends and coworkers than I did working as a musician.

 

I have wider interests and a more “artful” life. That is, my life has more art in it, both music and not music.

 

I’m much more shy about my music and less likely to want to perform.

 

Paradoxically, I’m much less fussy about my “art” now that I can afford to be fussy. Back when I took it seriously, it was hard for me to make compromises I needed to make to get paid.

 

I miss the kick of pulling a performance off in front of a large paying audience.

 

I miss the confidence (though I’m really better than I was) I felt going on stage.

 

I miss the applause and adoration of the audience, but more than that, of fellow musicians, especially those who I admired.

 

I sleep in my own bed more often and I’m glad of it.

 

I spend more time alone but am less lonely.

 

I miss travel (seeing different places, cultures, etc.)

 

I don’t miss travel (crappy hotels, airplanes, buses at weird hours, etc.)

 

There were several years when performance demands were so high I didn’t have time to practice (improve my art). The idea that going “pro” frees you up to practice ain’t necessarily so.

 

I no longer care if you are better (musically) than I am, or the other way around.

 

I’m now much better at determining if you are better than I am and how so.

 

Music is still as big a part of my life as it was then, maybe even more so.

[Helen]

These are incredible and moving stories.

 

Thanks,

 

Helen

[Guest]

Harp players have haloes.

 

No we don't - just a vicious rumour that we will never live up to

 

Cheers

Morgana

[stuart estell]

You are guilty and you have to prove to the taxman your innocence.

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I've never seen anyone express it that succinctly before, but you're right. I declare absolutely everything - in fact I only did two paid gigs for cash in the 2003-4 tax year but the money earned (negligible though it was) still went on my last tax return.

 

As far as wanting to be professional goes - well, I'm perfectly happy in front of an audience, and/or teaching, but really very bad at chasing gigs and all of that other administrative stuff - and I know that that's the part of the job that might not particularly suit me. I'd like to be better at it, but I'm simply not organised enough.

[Alan Day]

Here is my schedule for tomorrow.

Leave home at 3 pm drive for three and a half to four hours to near Weymouth in Dorset.Play from 8-11.30pm and drive back arrive home approx 3am.

Expenses approx £60 fuel. expected fee after 15 way split with the rest of the band

£30.

Why?

Because I enjoy it.

Does that make me a semi professional or an idiot (but a happy one)

Al

 

Crikey that makes me a boxer! Lets have a party

Edited January 28, 2005 by Alan Day

[JimLucas]

Here is my schedule for tomorrow.

Leave home at 3 pm drive for three and a half to four hours to near Weymouth in Dorset.Play from 8-11.30pm and drive back arrive home approx 3am.

Expenses approx £60 fuel. expected fee after 15 way split with the rest of the band £30.

Does that make me a semi professional or an idiot (but a happy one)

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The word that comes to my mind is "confessional".

 

But a 15-way split? That's not a band, it's an army!

[Helen]

Congrats, Al

 

What time does the party start?

 

Helen

 

(I was going to the Little Sisters of the Poor fundraiser and keg party tonight because I was intrigued by nuns having a keg party. But alas, I missed it.)

[John Nixon]

Hi Friends,

 

I have taken a large interest in reading this thread and the good views of so many folk, so maybe a little of my experiences will be useful.

I was VERY lucky to have a father who was already a leading English Concertina player long before I was born in 1927. He taught me when I was only 4 years old and by age 6 I was a member of the 25 strong Bolton English Concertina Band. I did play at many concerts and BBC broadcasts during the 1930's and 40's and my interest (fuelled by playing ZEZ Confrey tunes) led me to learn to play the Alto Sax & Clarinet and into dance bands etc., I was eventually earning more money from music than from my day job as an Engineering Designer BUT my father gave me the very good advice to keep both jobs going , and as I had demonstrated that I was capable of earning a decent wage with either job I was able to increase my experience in both to an acceptably high standard. This meant that when the eventual offer of well paid gigs for the TV/Radio/Films came along, an ability to read the "dots" at sight gave me a reputation that provided very lucrative work over many years and in particular, the 1970's and after. To play alongside the very best guys in ,for instance, the London Symphony Orchestra ,has always been very satisfying , and repeat engagements meant that I must have been working well enough. I was also lucky enough to be able to busk with the best in jazz groups in many hundreds of Jazz gigs.

Now the question arises as to whether I could be classed as a Professional Musician or not. My definition is, can I perform to the highest standard , and CONDUCT MYSELF in a disciplined manner , be punctual , not criticise fellow musicians etc. If the answer to all this is yes, then I must be professional.

As a tail piece to this reply, I am happy to report that , at my age, I can still perform in the "Professional" company as I recently spent 2-days recording in the world famous Abbey Road Studios in London, with 40 hand picked musicians for a French film.

Best Wishes to you All. JOHN NIXON.

[Stephen Chambers]

I'm not as good as my parakeets, yet -- I make mistakes, they don't -- but, we're working on it.  ... Trees and birds and one weird lady with her concertina, that's about as pro as I'll get around here, I guess.

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Wendy,

 

You reminded me of a lady who was a professional concertinist with a singing bird : Betty Auckland with "Little Tweet the Canary Caruso", I actually have a 78rpm record of the pair of them !

[JimLucas]

Now the question arises as to whether I could be classed as a Professional Musician or not. My definition is, can I perform to the highest standard , and CONDUCT MYSELF in a disciplined manner , be punctual , not criticise fellow musicians etc. If the answer to all this is yes, then I must be professional.

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John, an excellent essay, but please don't confuse the discussion.

 

The adjective "professional" has more than one meaning.

.. 1) professional - making one's living from a particular skill

.. 2) professional - performing with sufficient skill and artistry that one would be considered worthy of being paid for it

.. 3) professional - conducting business in a manner deserving of respect

 

It seems that all three apply to you, John, which is excellent. Possessing the second and third attributes can greatly aid in achieving the first, but each can exist in isolation, and there are (alas!) individuals who believe that posessing the first or second entitles them to behave oppositely to the third. There are even common expressions for such people, e.g., "prima donna".

 

But in this thread we've been discussing the first quality, and it's hardly played out. If anyone wants to discuss the other qualities, that could be equally interesting (and possibly more contentious), but I hope they would start new Topics to do so, to avoid the confusion I've seen so often when discussion deteriorates into an argument over the one and only true meaning of the word "professional", rather than discussing the individual qualities, each of which is important.

[Mark Evans]

Jim, I knew you would.

 

John, I'm very jealous. Your father played...and passed the torch. What a gift.

 

I'm now mad to hear Little Tweet and the Canary Caruso.

 

Weny, I'm courious. Do you play your Albion with that darling "snood" on it?

[bellowbelle]

and CONDUCT MYSELF in a disciplined manner ,...

(John Nixon)

 

Hmm... interesting...I'm not completely sure why 'Conduct Myself' is emphasized, however, that brings up that question I often ponder -- whether or not it would be 'fun' or worth it to be a professional if you were pretty much controlled by someone else, or did 'conduct' yourself. (Nothing to do with real musical conductors, of course.... ) I spent a short (and horrible, for me) time doing shows with a mostly amateur acting/singing group years ago, usually a show every weekend -- religious, mostly churches -- and it was just nothing like the fun I'd had being more original and freeform, in other groups. I think I prefer to CONDUCT MYSELF! Even if my self has less of a ripple in the great ocean of...um, conduction!

 

You reminded me of a lady who was a professional concertinist with a singing bird : Betty Auckland with "Little Tweet the Canary Caruso", I actually have a 78rpm record of the pair of them !

(Stephen Chambers)

 

Oh, I've never heard of her! That would be so great to hear. I don't know if there's a way you can easily/legally/whatever transmit a copy, but I'd certainly love to hear it sometime. I'll have to keep the name in mind. God, I hope I didn't already have a copy that went out with the 78s I offloaded...hmm...then again, I did keep several. I've been meaning to look and see if I have any concertina players at all (mostly 33 rpm types).

 

Do you play your Albion with that darling "snood" on it?

(Mark Evans)

 

No, though, it's possible to to leave it in place to play a few notes in a hurry in between pouring a coffee and buttering the toast or whatever. The one I use for the avatar here is not the one I use everyday -- I have a simpler one. (More in progress, too, and I'm gradually figuring out what yarns I prefer, etc.. ) I really find this holder, or snood (good term) very practical, and a nice focal-point and decoration (though, I don't really happen to like the one I use for the avatar...it seems ugly to me, now!).

 

I am working on one for Cheree Heppe, whom I met at the Northeast Squeeze-In. I've been in touch with her via e-mail a bit. She said she thought she'd like one. Of course, that doesn't obligate her -- if it turns out that she doesn't like it when it's done, well, it'll just go 'back in the pile' for someone else.

 

Oh, I did happen to find some soundclips of your wife, Dominique, singing, on Amazon.com! I was so amazed....wow! I didn't realize your wife was such a celebrity, and one with such an absolutely gorgeous soprano voice. 'Beautiful' is not enough to say about it, but, it'll have to do, for now!

 

(edited to correct a typo)

Edited January 30, 2005 by bellowbelle

[Mark Evans]

Yes Wendy, the chick can sho' nuff' sing. I've married much above my station...and she knows it!

 

Dominique just gave me a look. I'm to be thrown off the computer now. She's following an auction for a bunch of wool on ebay (down to the last 20 minutes). Everything in her world is now knitting...yes dear...

[JimLucas]

She's following an auction for a bunch of wool on ebay (down to the last 20 minutes).  Everything in her world is now knitting...

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.......... A real knit-picker, eh?

[JimLucas]

'Conduct Myself'

For that, it helps to be schizophrenic.

[Mark Evans]

Well Jim...she's not shy Coming dear!