Hayden Style Concertina Vs Piano Accordion

[inventor]

With regard to the compass of Hayden concertinas compared to Piano-Accordions:- A 46 button Hayden is very roughly the equivalent of a 26 key 48 bass PA.

I had a 68 button Hayden instrument made for me, with the top note an A the same as the top note as a standard 41 key PA, and down 3 octaves to an A which is 4 semitones above the lowest note of a 41 key PA (these 4 - F, F#, G, and G# are of course available on the left hand side of the instrument).However in around 30 years of playing the instrument (Folk, Baroque and a misc. eclectic collection of other genres); I have never needed anything above the high E - 5 semitones below the highest of the 41 PA.

My left hand played chordwise is roughly the equivalent of a 72 bass, PA; however as the chord sequence is concertinered into half the width of the equivalent of a stradella bass, in practice all chords in all keys are available to me.

 

Inventor...

Edited August 9, 2016 by inventor

[darticus]

With regard to the compass of Hayden concertinas compared to Piano-Accordions:- A 46 button Hayden is very roughly the equivalent of a 26 key 48 bass PA.

I had a 68 button Hayden instrument made for me, with the top note an A the same as the top note as a standard 41 key PA, and down 3 octaves to an A which is 4 semitones above the lowest note of a 41 key PA (these 4 - F, F#, G, and G# are of course available on the left hand side of the instrument).However in around 30 years of playing the instrument (Folk, Baroque and a misc. eclectic collection of other genres); I have never needed anything above the high E - 5 semitones below the highest of the 41 PA.

My left hand played chordwise is roughly the equivalent of a 72 bass, PA; however as the chord sequence is concertinered into half the width of the equivalent of a stradella bass, in practice all chords in all keys are available to me.

 

Inventor...

Thanks for your comments very informative and just the correct info I need. Thanks very much Ron

[Anglo-Irishman]

The strange difference from an anglo to this new set up might had earned the name accordion concertina or concertina accordion or melodeon concertina whatever. ... Ron

Ron,

 

Terminologically and linguistically, there is a clear difference between the differnt kinds of accordion, on one hand, and the different types of concertina, on the other hand. All accordions have more in common with each other than with any concertina, and all concertinas have more in common with each other than with any accordion (OK, someone will find an exception, but that will be the one that proves the rule! )

 

The name "accordeon" derives from the German word "Akkord," which means "chord." The essential feature of any modern accordeon, from the smallest diatonic melodeon to the biggest Russian bayan, is the configuration of the left side whereby one button produces a chord, rather than just a note.

The concertinas, by contrast, from the humble 20-button Anglo up to the Bandoneon, have a single note on each button (monosonoric) or button/bellows direction (bisonoric).

 

With the accordions, each hand plays, as it were, a separate instrument, whereas with the concertinas, both hands ocupy the same tonal space. This is seen most clearly in the Anglo, where melodies are most comfortable when they span the break between the ends, or of course the EC, where the hands play note about, all up and down the entire scale.

Even the duet systems - which do tempt you to play melodies on the right and chords on the left - have a single note per button, with the same button configuration on either end, the left-hand notes being an octave lower (at least, that's the way the Crane works).

 

Of course, size is a criterion. Accordions are so big that you have to strap them on to manipulatre them; concertinas as so small that you can hold them between your hands, perhaps resting them on your lap. This means that accordeons can have elongated keyboards (like pianos), whereas concertina layouts have to be squeezed into a small space, which entails some form of folding or dividing up the tonal space - each concertina system solves this problem in its own way.

 

As to the transferability from one layout to the other: I found that I could get my mind round the logic of the Crane duet by thinking of it as a mandolin (right hand) and a banjo (left hand). The Anglo, with its through-going diatonic scales, strikes me as more akin to the piano. OTOH, there's just nothing that has a feel more similar to the Anglo than the mouth organ!

 

To the point: a Hayden Duet is definitely a concertina. It is held between the hands, not strapped on; each individual button produces a note, rather than a chord; and the button arrangement is the same for both hands.

 

Cheers,

John

[darticus]

 

The strange difference from an anglo to this new set up might had earned the name accordion concertina or concertina accordion or melodeon concertina whatever. ... Ron

Ron,

 

Terminologically and linguistically, there is a clear difference between the differnt kinds of accordion, on one hand, and the different types of concertina, on the other hand. All accordions have more in common with each other than with any concertina, and all concertinas have more in common with each other than with any accordion (OK, someone will find an exception, but that will be the one that proves the rule! )

 

The name "accordeon" derives from the German word "Akkord," which means "chord." The essential feature of any modern accordeon, from the smallest diatonic melodeon to the biggest Russian bayan, is the configuration of the left side whereby one button produces a chord, rather than just a note.

The concertinas, by contrast, from the humble 20-button Anglo up to the Bandoneon, have a single note on each button (monosonoric) or button/bellows direction (bisonoric).

 

With the accordions, each hand plays, as it were, a separate instrument, whereas with the concertinas, both hands ocupy the same tonal space. This is seen most clearly in the Anglo, where melodies are most comfortable when they span the break between the ends, or of course the EC, where the hands play note about, all up and down the entire scale.

Even the duet systems - which do tempt you to play melodies on the right and chords on the left - have a single note per button, with the same button configuration on either end, the left-hand notes being an octave lower (at least, that's the way the Crane works).

 

Of course, size is a criterion. Accordions are so big that you have to strap them on to manipulatre them; concertinas as so small that you can hold them between your hands, perhaps resting them on your lap. This means that accordeons can have elongated keyboards (like pianos), whereas concertina layouts have to be squeezed into a small space, which entails some form of folding or dividing up the tonal space - each concertina system solves this problem in its own way.

 

As to the transferability from one layout to the other: I found that I could get my mind round the logic of the Crane duet by thinking of it as a mandolin (right hand) and a banjo (left hand). The Anglo, with its through-going diatonic scales, strikes me as more akin to the piano. OTOH, there's just nothing that has a feel more similar to the Anglo than the mouth organ!

 

To the point: a Hayden Duet is definitely a concertina. It is held between the hands, not strapped on; each individual button produces a note, rather than a chord; and the button arrangement is the same for both hands.

 

Cheers,

John

 

Fantastic info! I know there is a difference between the accordion and a piano accordion so I thought there must be a difference between an anglo and a Hayden. All is good. Thank Ron

[darticus]

Where would low C on an accordion be and middle C on the Hayden? Is there a chart showing where the notes are on the Hayden duet? Thanks Ron

[David Barnert]

Where would low C on an accordion be and middle C on the Hayden? Is there a chart showing where the notes are on the Hayden duet? Thanks Ron

 

I don’t know what low C on an accordion is (or even if it’s the same on all accordions. But here’s the layout of the standard 46-key Hayden. The keys on the left are an octave below the corresponding keys on the right. The C in parentheses is middle C, both hands. Notes on squeeze and draw are the same. Air vent button on the right (not shown here). Ignore the colors, which c.net adds for some unknown reason. I typed it all in black.

 

|        LEFT HAND            ||        RIGHT HAND
|                             ||
|                             ||  Bb  C   D
|   F   G   A   B             ||    F   G   A   B   C#
| Bb (C)  D   E   F#  G#      ||  Bb  C   D   E   F#  G#
|   F   G   A   B   C#  D#    ||    F   G   A   B   C#  D#
|     C   D   E   F#  G#      ||     (C)  D   E   F#  G#
|                             ||
|(5th Finger)       (Thumb)   ||  (Thumb)       (5th Finger)
| ======HAND STRAP========    ||   ======HAND STRAP========

Note that the horizontal rows are whole-tone scales (each key plays a whole tone higher than the key to its left). Whole-tone scales skip half the notes in a chromatic 12-tone scale, and the other 6 notes are in the adjacent row (above or below). Each horizontal row is half an octave higher in pitch than the one below it.

[TedK]

All accordions have more in common with each other than with any concertina, and all concertinas have more in common with each other than with any accordion

 

 

I would say the Anglo has much more in common with the diatonic accordion (melodeon) than with any other type of concertina, and vice versa. Harmonicas are also similar in teh diatonic layout, but the method of playing is very different.